Christians: The Trinity Fails to Describe God.

[YoursTrue]

No, my answer is yes. The Trinidadian formula is found in the texts.

Can you give more than your opinion? Texts that show the trinitarian formula?

 

[YoursTrue]

The above is a non-sequitur since it has nothing to do with what I posted. Plus, your wording above seemingly indicates that you're asserting that I'm not a Christian. Am I reading you right?

As far as the issue of Mary is concerned, I have not made a comment to you one way or another about her, so why did you bring her up? Is it that you like taking pot-shots at people who may belong to a different denomination than you do?

OK, sorry, I don't remember who it was that implied (well, actually more than implied) that Mary was not a virgin when she got pregnant with Jesus. Yet still the poster claimed he was Christian. (shrug, ok, whatever.)
As for my asserting you're not Christian, here is the best way I can say it right now: If I thought that true Christians would pick up arms to kill the national enemy, including possibly members of the same religion because their leaders tell them to, or if they felt it was the right thing to do, and if I believed in the trinity, I might feel free to join with people that do that and say they believe in Jesus and possibly be saved. Or think others would burn in hell. I wonder if salvation has anything to do with your beliefs.
I have a few more questions, but I'll leave that for another time perhaps.

 

[sojourner]

I'm sure you know what Elohim (often translated as God) means. It doesn't always refer to the father, son, or holy spirit. Now Jesus, being the Son of God, knew what it meant and how to apply it in context.

It refers to a certain understanding of God.

 

[YoursTrue]

It refers to a certain understanding of God.

Like what?

 

[metis]

OK, sorry, I don't remember who it was that implied (well, actually more than implied) that Mary was not a virgin when she got pregnant with Jesus. Yet still the poster claimed he was Christian. (shrug, ok, whatever.)
As for my asserting you're not Christian, here is the best way I can say it right now: If I thought that true Christians would pick up arms to kill the national enemy, including possibly members of the same religion because their leaders tell them to, or if they felt it was the right thing to do, and if I believed in the trinity, I might feel free to join with people that do that and say they believe in Jesus and possibly be saved. Or think others would burn in hell. I wonder if salvation has anything to do with your beliefs.
I have a few more questions, but I'll leave that for another time perhaps.

Maybe you should get over yourself and realize that you ain't the final judge of such matters. At least we within Catholicism don't judge others as that's taboo in our denomination.

You claim to believe in the Bible, but yet you basically ignore this:
Matt.7[1] "Judge not, that you be not judged.
[2] For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.
[3] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
[4] Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
[5] You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

And you also ignore this: Matthew 22[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

Again, if you want to play God, that's your choice, but I really have a strong disdain for your know-it-all judgementalism. As it says in the above verses, there are basically two commandments.

 

[sojourner]

Can you give more than your opinion? Texts that show the trinitarian formula?

Most readily available is the formula found in Matt. 28.

 

[sojourner]

Like what?

Doesn't matter. It's a completely different theological construct.

 

[YoursTrue]

Maybe you should get over yourself and realize that you ain't the final judge of such matters. At least we within Catholicism don't judge others as that's taboo in our denomination.

You claim to believe in the Bible, but yet you basically ignore this:
Matt.7[1] "Judge not, that you be not judged.
[2] For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.
[3] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
[4] Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
[5] You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

And you also ignore this: Matthew 22[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

Again, if you want to play God, that's your choice, but I really have a strong disdain for your know-it-all judgementalism. As it says in the above verses, there are basically two commandments.

I think you are misrepresenting, AND misjudging greatly what those verses mean. But -- that's your choice. (Not mine.)
Judge not does not mean "don't decide," or do not make a religious decision about what's right religiously. If you feel killing one's brother is right in God's eyes, all I can say is, do what you have to do.
The Athanasian Creed according to you then is wrong as far as you have determined because it declares eternal damnation for those who do not agree, doesn't it? for those who do not accept and admit the co-equality and co-eternality of each "person" of the trinity as if they are three persons OF one God, without beginning. Three. Three there equal to one another "of" one being.
God is the judge, just as he judges our hearts and decisions. About obeying the superior authorities. Christ is higher than any world power. He can read hearts and minds.
Loving my brother should not, by the way, be killing him, should it? Such as Cain killing his brother? Here you have two brothers, close knit, not on opposite sides of the ocean. They knew each other. No one told Cain to slaughter Abel. The world got larger since then. And Satan told Jesus he had all the kingdoms of the world in his operation, Jesus did not tell Satan, no, you don't. He didn't tell him, "uh uh, you can't give them to me." He told him to go away. And Jesus, the model and examplar, did not give in to Satan's wishes.

 

[YoursTrue]

Doesn't matter. It's a completely different theological construct.

(It sure is.)

 

[YoursTrue]

Most readily available is the formula found in Matt. 28.

Nothing about co-equality and no beginning of each of the three entities. Nothing.

 

[sojourner]

Nothing about co-equality and no beginning of each of the three entities. Nothing.

You asked for the Trinitarian formula. I gave it to you. You’re still complaining. It’s a sign you expect the Bible to contain fully-formulated doctrinal statements. Ridiculous.

 

[YoursTrue]

You asked for the Trinitarian formula. I gave it to you. You’re still complaining. It’s a sign you expect the Bible to contain fully-formulated doctrinal statements. Ridiculous.

There is nothing e.v.e.r in the Bible about three co-equal, coeternal persons always there as 'of' one being. Nothing.

 

[sojourner]

There is nothing e.v.e.r in the Bible about three co-equal, coeternal persons always there as 'of' one being. Nothing.

...that you recognize or interpret.

 

[YoursTrue]

...that you recognize or interpret.

Nothing you say is to the contrary. Not one scripture shows (in fact not 10 scriptures) that God is a compendium of three persons, all equal to the others, forming one entity.

 

[sojourner]

Nothing you say is to the contrary. Not one scripture shows (in fact not 10 scriptures) that God is a compendium of three persons, all equal to the others, forming one entity.

...That you recognize or interpret...

 

[cataway]

...That you recognize or interpret...

or make up? as you have

 

[sojourner]

or make up? as you have

You don't have enough facts on hand to make that determination. Your posts display no theological imagination.

 

[cataway]

You don't have enough facts on hand to make that determination. Your posts display no theological imagination.

its all together possible that i have a vivid imagination . yet not near as much as those that promote the trinity .imagination is the ability to form a mental image of something not present to the senses, or never before wholly perceived in reality . the concept of the trinity fits nicely into such a description .

 

[sojourner]

its all together possible that i have a vivid imagination . yet not near as much as those that promote the trinity .imagination is the ability to form a mental image of something not present to the senses, or never before wholly perceived in reality . the concept of the trinity fits nicely into such a description .

Well, I'd have to say that, since no one can define God or wholly perceive God in empirical reality, and since the doctrine of the Trinity isn't an ontological argument, but a theological proposition (as, indeed, is any notion about God), imagination is rather a good thing. And something your posts and the theological thinking they display is sorely lacking.

 

[cataway]

Well, I'd have to say that, since no one can define God or wholly perceive God in empirical reality, and since the doctrine of the Trinity isn't an ontological argument, but a theological proposition (as, indeed, is any notion about God), imagination is rather a good thing. And something your posts and the theological thinking they display is sorely lacking.

are you saying you want to know what he ,God ,is ?