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Christians: The Trinity Fails to Describe God.

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Really? So that is why people claiming to be Christian have systemically killed each other throughout the centuries? Not to mention if the mother of Jesus is still the virgin?
The above is a non-sequitur since it has nothing to do with what I posted. Plus, your wording above seemingly indicates that you're asserting that I'm not a Christian. Am I reading you right?

As far as the issue of Mary is concerned, I have not made a comment to you one way or another about her, so why did you bring her up? Is it that you like taking pot-shots at people who may belong to a different denomination than you do?
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yes, it is that difficult. Three persons are one being? Where in the human race are three humans said to be one human, forget being. That three humans are all humans is true, but one human in three humans?
Look at it this way: the Nicene Creed says "...of one being with the Father..." The three Persons are not "one being." The Son and HS are of one being with the Father. I think you're conflating "God" with "Father." While the Father is God, God is not only the Father, because God is expressed in community, not in particularity.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Look at it this way: the Nicene Creed says "...of one being with the Father..." The three Persons are not "one being." The Son and HS are of one being with the Father. I think you're conflating "God" with "Father." While the Father is God, God is not only the Father, because God is expressed in community, not in particularity.
OK, now let's see if I understand it. So "of one being" doesn't mean one being. Right?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The above is a non-sequitur since it has nothing to do with what I posted. Plus, your wording above seemingly indicates that you're asserting that I'm not a Christian. Am I reading you right?

As far as the issue of Mary is concerned, I have not made a comment to you one way or another about her, so why did you bring her up? Is it that you like taking pot-shots at people who may belong to a different denomination than you do?
I brought up Mary's virginity before she gave birth to Jesus as an example of what people may or may not believe, and so I wonder what you may believe about that. Because some people claiming to be Christian or Jew really don't care what the Bible says, or they don't care to examine it. Yet they claim to be a Christian, Jew, or another religion using the Bible as somewhat of a reference or base for whatever they like to believe I suppose.
I had some long conversations with a former nun who is still into religion, heavnily involved in the RCC, took communion every day at least before Covid19 at the church. She explicitly told me over a cup of coffee at dinner that she didn't care what the Bible says, she's going to believe what she wants, and got really upset and abusive in discussing the Bible when I asked her if she believed Mary was a virgin, but she goes to seminars and lectures about religion throughout the country. When she cursed the Bible, despite her higher education (she became a schoolteacher eventually), I stopped discussing such things with her.
Now I'm not sure if she prays the "Hail, Mary," I was not Catholic so don't know the liturgy at communion, but assuming it's ok for some in their hearts and minds to pray to a saint, known as the "mother of God," because I know people say the "Hail, Mary, mother of God" prayer..Whether or not you believe it is really not the question. Because we all have to make decisions in life and I wonder what you personally believe.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
OK, now let's see if I understand it. So "of one being" doesn't mean one being. Right?
You’re conflating “being” with “person,” as in a single human being. But yes. The distinct Persons are distinct, but they share the same essence of divinity.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You’re conflating “being” with “person,” as in a single human being. But yes. The distinct Persons are distinct, but they share the same essence of divinity.
No, I wasn't. I understood your point that "of one being" doesn't mean one being. Or so I thought. Maybe the three persons you think are spoken of in the Bible, each and all equal to the other, more or less, although some sway the son is always in subjection to the Father, are OF one being, but are three persons. (I guess the three persons are NOT three beings??)
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No, I wasn't. I understood your point that "of one being" doesn't mean one being. Or so I thought. Maybe the three persons you think are spoken of in the Bible, each and all equal to the other, more or less, although some sway the son is always in subjection to the Father, are OF one being, but are three persons. (I guess the three persons are NOT three beings??)
Yes I know. It was a badly-worded response. Sorry! Problem is, "being" carries more than one connotation. There is no direct translation for the Greek homoousion. "Being" is an English approximation. "Essence" or "substance" is also used, and is also an approximation. Each Person of the Trinity is a particular being. Each Person shares the same essence. That essence is Divinity.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
actually i asked you to show ''God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit'' you answered a different question
Why does it have to be that exact wording? There are several ways of saying the same thing, you know. The Bible speaks of all three Persons as God. The Trinitarian formula is found in several places in the Bible. The Church Fathers didn’t come up with the doctrine out of whole cloth for misleading and sinister purposes. They formulated it because the Bible says that these three are God.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Why does it have to be that exact wording? There are several ways of saying the same thing, you know. The Bible speaks of all three Persons as God. The Trinitarian formula is found in several places in the Bible. The Church Fathers didn’t come up with the doctrine out of whole cloth for misleading and sinister purposes. They formulated it because the Bible says that these three are God.
Ok I see your point. For one thing, let's start at the very beginning. So, according to you and the trinity doctrine, there were three persons, each a separate being, always alive, with no Creator, all without a beginning, is that right? Let's see if we can look at it that way for a moment.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
Why does it have to be that exact wording? There are several ways of saying the same thing, you know. The Bible speaks of all three Persons as God. The Trinitarian formula is found in several places in the Bible. The Church Fathers didn’t come up with the doctrine out of whole cloth for misleading and sinister purposes. They formulated it because the Bible says that these three are God.
actually trinitarian gods where around a long time before it was adapted by so called Christians . its not something that was discovered or even invented by anyone that believed in Jesus .
myself i know Jehovah is the name of the most high God. Jesus the christ being his first son. strange as it may sound that is what the bible says.
two different beings with the son who serves his father ,even unto death.

John 13:16 Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Why does it have to be that exact wording? There are several ways of saying the same thing, you know. The Bible speaks of all three Persons as God. The Trinitarian formula is found in several places in the Bible. The Church Fathers didn’t come up with the doctrine out of whole cloth for misleading and sinister purposes. They formulated it because the Bible says that these three are God.
I'm sure you know what Elohim (often translated as God) means. It doesn't always refer to the father, son, or holy spirit. Now Jesus, being the Son of God, knew what it meant and how to apply it in context.
 
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