Christians: The Trinity Fails to Describe God.

[sojourner]

are you saying you want to know what he ,God ,is ?

No. I'm saying your posts are on the wrong track in your understanding of what theology does.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Blue

This has been enveloped to what we know as the Trinity for modern Christianity.

Is God the Father and God the Son the same being?

The Trinity says yes using that same scripture the bishops used in John 10:30, where the Father is One with the Son and the Son with the Father. They are the same being. For there can only be One God. And that God is Jesus, and Jesus is the Father and His spirit is the Holy Ghost.

God is an isn't the same being. That is Holy Spirit is God, Jesus is God, and Father (Creator) is God. But Jesus while being one with the Father is not the Father.

1. God (Father) is a singular spiritual consciousness responsible for creation of all that is (nearest religious equivalent is Brahman in Hindu, not to be confused with Brahmins or Brahma, but Brahman is an impersonal presences who God is a spirit that cares for us)
2. God (Jesus) is a personal connection to the divine, not as an abstract but as an incarnation (we have equivalents in other religions called avatars, but again these are imperfect as they are human disguises not a true human standing in front of us wanting to talk to us)
3. God (Holy Spirit) is a soul that pervades all living things (like kami spirits in Shinto, but again, not quite)

God is one, and God is all. God is part of everything there is, because we have souls, we have bodies and are people, and we are able to pray to God outsider ourselves.

At the same time, someone with reason and common sense is looking at this and saying, "Wait, What!?"

So you're telling me, that every time Jesus was praying, the time He stated, "Not my will, but thine, be done", the time He told his disciples, in John 5:30, I can do nothing of my self, but of the Father which has sent me?" Or Mark 10: 18 Where he states that only God is good. How can we make sense of this in a Trinity mind set?

You probably need to restudy your Bible. Jesus cannot pray to himself (he prays to the Father), but he knows that the Father works through him (the Son), and through his faith (the Holy Spirit).

The answer is we cannot. Or we can try to by bending a whole lot of scripture to a very uncomfortable and confusing way making the whole meaning of God to everyone as clear as mud.

So the only question really to answer, is what do we do about the whole Monotheism thing we got going for us? What about all the times God tells us that there is only One God? How can Jesus be God and this Father figure be God, and this Holy Spirit be God? Would that make us believe in three Gods, without the idea of the Trinity?

I think accepting this almost 2000 year old man-made creed for such a long time has really messed up Christians idea of God.

I think most Christians don't get the Trinity. But we don't need to get it. The only person I see messed up by this is you. You're hung up on not understanding this. A shamrock is often used to explain the Trinity. You know why? Because whether you pluck the leaves out or leave it be, a shamrock is always a shamrock. The Trinity is always a whole, never three gods.

Christ had to encounter a similar situation with the Jews, when he was asked a similar question of His divinity. in John 10:33-35. We learn that not only is Jesus defending Psalms 82:6, He is renouncing the Jews understanding of what they thought was blasphemous when he pronounced himself as the Son of God directly from Psalms.

God was never meant to be a singular being. We don't have a First and Last name as "God" in the Bible. It never says God is only one being. It does say that there is only one God, but God is not a name of a being, it is a title.

I think you're veering into modalism (the idea of God with three roles) or tritheism (three distinct gods, see also Islamic understanding of Christianity). God is a whole. A singular whole. Not three gods, but God. Not three types of god, but God.

God represents a collection of spiritual beings whose whole purpose is righteousness. Genesis 1:26 (notice the Us and We pronouns) The Father, who is known as Elohim, The Son, Jesus or Jehovah, and The Holy Ghost. These are the head of the institution which is called God.

The Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are separate beings. They work together to achieve the same goal which makes them part of the same organization which is God.

No, they are not. This is modalism. God is One, just as we humans are one. We are souls, bodies, and spirits wrapped in the same package then given a name..

Notice that even though there are multiple beings under this Godship, there is still only One God. One singular organization whose goal is the salvation of their creations.

So, next time you read John 17:3, I would hope you wouldn't lean on the understanding of a man-made council hundreds of years ago to tell you who God is, but read the Bible to learn that the Trinity doesn't make sense at all.

Humans are imperfect creatures created by a very human God. They are not meant to perfectly understand how this works. They met in the Council of Nicea to specifically strike out heresies. This doesn't mean they had a perfect understanding of the Trinity. But there's a number of teachings they concluded were definitely wrong.

Chief among these were the Gnostics, who believed Christ was entirely divine (this has many problems but chief among these is that there is no connection to humanity so Christ died in vain). But there were also Marcionism (basically, the OT God and NT God are not the same), Montanist (basically a charismatic heresy, in that the guy claimed God was speaking to him, and rejected the priests), Origen (prayers should only be directed to the Father, we have bodies because of sin while we were souls, and all souls would be saved), Manichaeism (reincarnation, all religions equally valid, and kinda Gnostic), Cathars (two gods one which is evil, and Gnostic in that they believed the physical world was created by the evil god), Donatists (church should not contain unholy members), Arianism (Jesus and the Father are both God, but Jesus is a lesser creation), Pelagianism (that babies are born pure and become sinful, but have the choice to be perfect), and Nestorianism (Christ was a man who became God, rather than the other way around).

The Nicene Creed and Apostle's Creed were made specifically to resolve these things. To teach Christians by saying what better theology was.

 

[YoursTrue]

No. I'm saying your posts are on the wrong track in your understanding of what theology does.

Of course, do you think we can decide what theology we prefer and what we agree with?

 

[YoursTrue]

Blue



Humans are imperfect creatures created by a very human God. They are not meant to perfectly understand how this works. They met in the Council of Nicea to specifically strike out heresies. This doesn't mean they had a perfect understanding of the Trinity. But there's a number of teachings they concluded were definitely wrong.

Chief among these were the Gnostics, who believed Christ was entirely divine (this has many problems but chief among these is that there is no connection to humanity so Christ died in vain). But there were also Marcionism (basically, the OT God and NT God are not the same), Montanist (basically a charismatic heresy, in that the guy claimed God was speaking to him, and rejected the priests), Origen (prayers should only be directed to the Father, we have bodies because of sin while we were souls, and all souls would be saved), Manichaeism (reincarnation, all religions equally valid, and kinda Gnostic), Cathars (two gods one which is evil, and Gnostic in that they believed the physical world was created by the evil god), Donatists (church should not contain unholy members), Arianism (Jesus and the Father are both God, but Jesus is a lesser creation), Pelagianism (that babies are born pure and become sinful, but have the choice to be perfect), and Nestorianism (Christ was a man who became God, rather than the other way around).

The Nicene Creed and Apostle's Creed were made specifically to resolve these things. To teach Christians by saying what better theology was.

Humans are created by a very human God? I am almost afraid to ask how so.

 

[Muffled]

I believe the Bible describes God and the Trinity quite well. I rely on the Holy Spirit to help me understand scripture.

 

[Muffled]

Mathematically, it doesn't, which I think is the point of my post. The Trinity, which by design is supposed to logically help the common understanding of God, is not logical. And no offense, but everything holds in a spiritual sense, considering the spirit is so diverse in nature.

I don't believe it needs to make mathematical sense. However I believe it does. God is one and He is in three.

I do not believe the Trinity was ever intended to logically help an understanding of God. I can't imagine why one would think so.

 

[Muffled]

@Jacob Samuelson, I rated your OP a winner because when I read it, I thought, "I couldn't have put it better myself. Well done!" And then -- after I'd read your post and rated it a winner -- I noticed your religion.

I believe it can be a winner in your own little mystical world but not in the real world.

 

[cataway]

I believe the Bible describes God and the Trinity quite well. I rely on the Holy Spirit to help me understand scripture.

8 "I am Jehovah. That is my name;
I give my glory to no one else,
Nor my praise to graven images." nope , sorry Muffled , i dont see it.

 

[Pipiripi]

There is only One God and One Mediator between God and man, and His name is Jesus Christ of NAZARETH.

 

[Pipiripi]

There is only One God and One Mediator between God and man, and His name is Jesus Christ of NAZARETH.

 

[rational experiences]

There is only One God and One Mediator between God and man, and His name is Jesus Christ of NAZARETH.

There is only One God in science themes, the God of the stone, first and where his science thesis comes from.

There is only One heavenly God in science themes...all the spirit gases.

There is only one human male as a human life on Planet Earth, and he is no mediator.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 8:31-39&version=NLT;NIV
Nothing Can Separate Us from God’s Love. 31 What shall we say about such wonderful things as these? If God is for us, who can ever be against us

31 is the highest quote number of the month.

Exodus 12:2
This month [shall be] unto you the beginning of months: it [shall be] the first month of the year to you

12 by 2 in even balances, day light the sacrifice of the Immaculate. One month ends the second month begins.

Ask why they quoted the sacrifice of life was the mediator, for they tried to separate the 2 biological life forms of the 2 forms of God. The stone/bone God within us, and the water/holy bio spirit life in the heavens. And they lied, the thesis was written as Anti existence in fact of removal of the fused body of God as the one God.

We were taught that the end information was the only answer and truth, never give God a name and try to destroy/change God ever again...as the total reviewed answer. Giving quips of information out of the bible is the same as just inferring there is only one thought. When multi thoughts and multi reasonings equalled the writing of the Book...the Holy See.

 

[Katzpur]

I believe it can be a winner in your own little mystical world but not in the real world.

Now that wasn't very nice.

 

[Pipiripi]

If I declared biblically why the doctrine Trinity is a false one, before anyone see it they delete it. Why? Because it is their believe and no one can go against their beliefs. I feel very sad that are FEW forums that let everybody express their beliefs and why they believe that way, and also can prove BIBLICAL their believing. I'm sorry this is not the first and not the last forums that shall banner me. God rules is above all rules. If they banner me, the has banned Jesus. Because all that I write is in the Bible.
The Bible never had speak about three Gods in one, or triune Gods. Read the greetings of the Apostles and the closing of their statement. Their only use 2 names.

 

[Pipiripi]

Blue



Humans are imperfect creatures created by a very human God. They are not meant to perfectly understand how this works. They met in the Council of Nicea to specifically strike out heresies. This doesn't mean they had a perfect understanding of the Trinity. But there's a number of teachings they concluded were definitely wrong.

Chief among these were the Gnostics, who believed Christ was entirely divine (this has many problems but chief among these is that there is no connection to humanity so Christ died in vain). But there were also Marcionism (basically, the OT God and NT God are not the same), Montanist (basically a charismatic heresy, in that the guy claimed God was speaking to him, and rejected the priests), Origen (prayers should only be directed to the Father, we have bodies because of sin while we were souls, and all souls would be saved), Manichaeism (reincarnation, all religions equally valid, and kinda Gnostic), Cathars (two gods one which is evil, and Gnostic in that they believed the physical world was created by the evil god), Donatists (church should not contain unholy members), Arianism (Jesus and the Father are both God, but Jesus is a lesser creation), Pelagianism (that babies are born pure and become sinful, but have the choice to be perfect), and Nestorianism (Christ was a man who became God, rather than the other way around).

The Nicene Creed and Apostle's Creed were made specifically to resolve these things. To teach Christians by saying what better theology was.

Modern Christianity is made by the devil. Why? Because God's Word will stay forever. The Bible is our guidance nothing else. No leaders and any priests of any religions can changed the word of God. Go and read Galatians 1:1-10.

 

[cataway]

I believe the Bible describes God and the Trinity quite well. I rely on the Holy Spirit to help me understand scripture.

what about angels . are they holy spirits ?

 

[rational experiences]

Why does any human write literature? The answer, so that it can be read. What if you cannot read it? What if you had to understand that an irradiated psyche mind had channelled advised the information proven like the Bahaullah?

What if you had to quote to self the science male group possessed mind by their own false thesis, to think where no man existed that they were a Holy Father self, human and a holy baby son self and that the Holy spirits of the heavenly body supported their life. How would you teach self relative advice in reality? When you were proven wrong as a male and a scientist?