Christians: the doctrines of Mary

[-Peacemaker-]

You and pegg have not made much of a scholar-like attempt in your degrading and demonizing of Catholicism in saying we worship Mary.

If by that you mean I haven't quoted scholars in my challenging of doctrines I view as potentially very dangerous it's true I haven't. But why is that? Is it because I couldn't find scholars to support me in challenging doctines that border on idolatry? Heavens no. It's because I've gotten into those kinds of debates on these forums where it amounts to two non-scholars running to apologetic websites posting arguments and counter arguments. I figure if you're that interested in reading contemporary scholarly debate on these subjects you're more than welcome to visit those websites. I simply try to wield the sword of God's word and refute false teaching with it (2 Tim 3:16). Let me put it this way, if there are Catholics that treat Mary with a level of trust that should only be reserved for God I believe with all my heart that the vast majority do it out of ignorance. At the end of the day we have a mere human being being called the queen of Heaven. Do we really need a scholar to back us up before we realize how jacked up that is?

 

[Pegg]

He was speaking out against offering Mary things as if she is God, i which such action is condemned by the Church.

Do you know the difference between adore and venerate?

what about prayers offered to mary? Why are they viewed as appropriate?

 

[Pegg]

Please quote your source. The New Catholic Encyclopedia does not teach this. There may be a quote from some heretic, but it is dishonest to misrepresent Catholic teaching with false or misleading quotes out of context.

Yes, sorry i often forget to include the source.
New Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. 9, p. 337
“the Greek words . . . that are used to designate the relationship between Jesus and these relatives have the meaning of full blood brother and sister.”

Please quote your source so I know you are not just making it up. Jean Gilles is an author, if he exists, and is not a theologian and is not ordained to teach. He is not shaking the pillar and foundation of truth with his opinions. None of his books are on line, and the name is not in any Google search.

the quote comes from the book entitled Les “frères et sœurs” (Jesus’ “brothers and sisters&#8221 He is a French catholic author.

 

[Falcon]

He was an ex-Catholic at the time of his writing the book. i should say he became a non-practicing Catholic who found a niche [ money, as another Judas ] in writing anti-Catholic junk.

 

[Pegg]

Sojourner, I don't understand your question. Mary as "Ever Virgin" is a title, not a symbol, and it has been repeated several times that the Hebrew and Aramaic has no word for "cousin", so they use brother. Dozens of scripture references have been given that proves "brothers" does not always mean biological brothers. Since even the reformers upheld Mary's perpetual virginity, it stands to reason that Mary having other children is a man made theory that did not become popular until recently.

the gospels were written in Greek

 

[JacobEzra.]

what about prayers offered to mary? Why are they viewed as appropriate?

Because they are prayer for intercession.

Again, do you know the differences between veneration and adoration?

 

[JacobEzra.]

Let me put it this way, if there are Catholics that treat Mary with a level of trust that should only be reserved for God I believe with all my heart that the vast majority do it out of ignorance. At the end of the day we have a mere human being being called the queen of Heaven. Do we really need a scholar to back us up before we realize how jacked up that is?

lol yes, because you fail to understand Catholic beliefs and therefore slander us for something you misunderstand.

And what do you mean by "level of trust that should only be reserved for God"? Do you know that we treat Mary much different then we treat Christ?

 

[JacobEzra.]

Yes, sorry i often forget to include the source.
New Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. 9, p. 337
“the Greek words . . . that are used to designate the relationship between Jesus and these relatives have the meaning of full blood brother and sister.”

You read a whole Catholic encyclopedia, or do you have a link?

 

[Pegg]

You read a whole Catholic encyclopedia, or do you have a link?

i've given you the reference, that is a link.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

lol yes, because you fail to understand Catholic beliefs and therefore slander us for something you misunderstand.

And what do you mean by "level of trust that should only be reserved for God"? Do you know that we treat Mary much different then we treat Christ?

I never wanted to slander any follower of Jesus but to maintain a foundation in sound biblical teaching. I believe Catholics are sincere in their beliefs about Mary but I believe they are sincerely wrong. Sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to get perspective on something as being around like minded people all day can dull our discernment. We can both probably agree that most of Mariology is at the very least extra-biblical. If I'm wrong in my understanding of these doctrines and have made false accusations I couldn't be more sorry. I love all God's people with all my heart and can't stand for people's hearts being pulled away even 1/100th away from Jesus no matter how sincere they might be. I also detest doctrine that leads people astray no matter how sincere the reasons are for teaching it.

 

[Astounded]

You read a whole Catholic encyclopedia, or do you have a link?

You're not going to get a link. When you deal with JW's and SDA's be careful of what the ...... in the sentences leave out. Both JW's and SDA's are famous for that tactic used to twist the meaning of the original sentence.

 

[kepha31]

i've given you the reference, that is a link.

A reference is the name of a book or source.
A link is something you can click on. Again, NO Catholic encyclopedia teaches that Jesus had full blood brothers, or you are quoting out of context. A link is something you can click on to verify what you are saying. Your reference is a lie.

This is a link: Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Mary: The Blessed Virgin (Index Page for Dave Armstrong)

This is a reference: "Hail Holy Queen"- The Mother of God in the Word of God" by Prof. Scott Hahn. The book can be found at this link from Amazon: Amazon.com: Hail, Holy Queen (9780385501682): Scott Hahn: Books

 

[JacobEzra.]

You're not going to get a link. When you deal with JW's and SDA's be careful of what the ...... in the sentences leave out. Both JW's and SDA's are famous for that tactic used to twist the meaning of the original sentence.

Lol I can tell.

I know for a fact that person did not read through a Catholic Encyclopedia, let alone fine what she wrote.

Both sound to illogical

 

[kepha31]

People get into trouble when they get their "Catholic" information from hate sites. jesusislord.con is an example, but I have in the past encountered blatant lies that have the appearance of being authentic Catholic sources.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia is not available on line, but there are several that are. For about $1900, you can order your own, or go to a diocesan library and check the source. That's the job for a full time apologist who has the time to do the leg work and refute the outrageous lies by people who have no use for the truth.

Anti-Catholics don't understand what encyclopedias are for. Nor do they understand how to read the Early Church Fathers. They are not scripture and Catholics do not read them the way non-Catholics read the Bible. But it is presumed that Catholics hold everyth line found in an encyclopedia or ECF to be infallible. This premise is silly, but it happens all the time.

 

[Pegg]

A reference is the name of a book or source.
A link is something you can click on. Again, NO Catholic encyclopedia teaches that Jesus had full blood brothers, or you are quoting out of context. A link is something you can click on to verify what you are saying. Your reference is a lie.

This is a link: Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Mary: The Blessed Virgin (Index Page for Dave Armstrong)

This is a reference: "Hail Holy Queen"- The Mother of God in the Word of God" by Prof. Scott Hahn. The book can be found at this link from Amazon: Amazon.com: Hail, Holy Queen (9780385501682): Scott Hahn: Books

ok kepha, if im lieing why not prove me wrong by going and having a look in your own reference work....its the 1967, Vol. IX, p. 337

if i am wrong, I will be happy to retract what i quoted and apologize.

 

[Falcon]

Pegg, why not get your Catholic information from the Catholic sources that kepha suggested.
kepha explains the problem found back in his post #94.

 

[Awoon]

Hey guys. I'm back after getting in a little trouble with the Mods. I apologize for being a little too obnoxious with my tone. I didn't realize it would be such an issue. Let's try doing this again.

Some of the doctrines on Mary that Protestants fear border on idolatry are her alleged sinlessness as well as her being a perpetual virgin. The real question is do we as Christians sometimes elevate her beyond a mere human servant of JC? Is this especially the case given the fact there is strong scriptural support for refuting both the doctrines mentioned?

Jesus, Peter, Paul talked about Mary with every breath they took.

 

[Pegg]

Pegg, why not get your Catholic information from the Catholic sources that kepha suggested.
kepha explains the problem found back in his post #94.

I thought the catholic encyclopedia was a catholic source

 

[-Peacemaker-]

My sense is that I ruffled a few feathers in this thread. I'm thinking we take a few days off before we tackle communion

 

[Awoon]

My sense is that I ruffled a few feathers in this thread. I'm thinking we take a few days off before we tackle communion

That's another thing Jesus, Peter and Paul talked about with every breath they took:no: