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Christians: Scripture opposes evidence based faith & creationism

Muffled

Jesus in me
Belief requires effort and moral courage or is not belief. Evolution is as difficult as watching a television show. Accepting Jesus on the other hand is a totally different matter. It requires all kinds of effort.

Paul summarizes that the letter kills but the spirit gives life. Paul says we are dead in our sins without Christ, yet here stand people not in Christ. Jesus says repentance is resurrection, yet Paul and Peter are in their graves and early Christians put R.I.P. on gravestones. RIP means 'Rest in peace' not 'See you soon'. Those people in their graves are alive in Christ. Hence being a Christian is about not living for your own self, and this is what takes faithfulness.

I believe the opposite is true. Evolution takes a great deal of study and one must not jump to conclusions as though fantasy were the real thing ie television shows are not real. Accepting Jesus is so easy even a child can do it.

I don't believe the conclusion follows from the premises.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
I believe the opposite is true. Evolution takes a great deal of study and one must not jump to conclusions as though fantasy were the real thing ie television shows are not real. Accepting Jesus is so easy even a child can do it.

I don't believe the conclusion follows from the premises.
Who was it that said "Show me your faith without deeds and I'll show you my faith by what I do." So I think this author agrees with me that faith is more strenuous than believing things. Evolution on the other hand does not require a great deal of anything, unless you are the one chasing around the world taking pictures of course. Just open a book, and flip a few pages. It requires no effort.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Who was it that said "Show me your faith without deeds and I'll show you my faith by what I do." So I think this author agrees with me that faith is more strenuous than believing things. Evolution on the other hand does not require a great deal of anything, unless you are the one chasing around the world taking pictures of course. Just open a book, and flip a few pages. It requires no effort.

I believe you are in error. The author recognizes that faith has consequences not that on e has to work to produce anything. So if I don't have faith in evolution I don't kiss a monkey as though he were a long lost brother. I don't even have to think about it.

I believe one might read as though the words came from God (they don't; they come from men) but how would you know whether the person is fantasizing, speculating or simply misinterpreting facts? Then there is the occasional liar like the one who wrote about Piltdown man.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
It is sometimes put to me that because I accept Evolution or because I do not take the Bible literally where someone else does that I'm in the wrong, that I have fake faith, that I am not sincere. Its as if I have sinned by taking an interest in Science or that I have backstabbed somebody. If I listen to some preacher circumnavigate the podium, it is more than often the case that they will seek to undermine my position. They do not like Science or those who do. They do not trust evidence -- except when it comes to proving God's existence using bad evidence. These, I contend, are the atheists by doing these things. They encourage unfaithfulness under cover of insisting belief is evidence supported. No, it should only be action-supported.

I contend that the God of the Bible is ineffable -- too great to be described in words, and a believer believes without proof or is not a believer. That is, gather all that the believer thinks they know and take it away, and then see if they are a believer or not. It is a question of commitment and action not of words or knowing. "But someone will say, 'You have faith; I have deeds.' Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." (James 2:18)

Modern creationism has no Biblical basis, primarily because it seeks to prove God exists. It is a viscous irony. For this reason I also contend that modern creationism is a sham, cooked up by purse-pinching ministers to shore up their accounting. Their churches are bleeding. They are scrambling to attack anything that moves -- even Science and even Christians who have an education in Science.

I will contend here that belief in the invisible, unsearchable, omnipresent one and only God if claimed on the basis of proofs is no different from atheism. What has such a 'Believer' done differently than any atheist? It is not I, who do not take the Bible literally who should be called the atheist. It is anyone who tries to prove God's existence whether through the Bible or miracles or stage props. The more they seek to assure themselves of their faith, the more they should realize that there is a problem. I think they are atheists who have simply not discovered it for themselves, yet! The one who points the finger at me, ought to consider their own difficult precipice, their own weakness in that they are relying upon words and arguments; and they should disregard those and look at their actions instead. If I am a believer I'll act like one and if not then not.

A believer should believe without proofs. Belief in the invisible God is from heaven, not from proofs. I'll start us off with several verses from the Christian NIV Bible:

"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (Matthew 6:6)

"By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible." (Hebrews 11:27)

Matthew Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. (Matthew 16:16-17)

"Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy," (I Peter 1:8)

Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:28-29)

"Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. But whoever loves God is known by God." (I Corinthians 8:2-3)


I am a modern creationist take a presuppositional approach, God cannot lie, His word is true.
Taste and see that the Lord is good Ps 34:8
All world views have assumptions and they should be consistent
Checking world views for philosophically or even evidentially consistent
that includes looking at the data and examining assumptions made related to data
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
I am a modern creationist take a presuppositional approach, God cannot lie, His word is true.
Taste and see that the Lord is good Ps 34:8
All world views have assumptions and they should be consistent
Checking world views for philosophically or even evidentially consistent
that includes looking at the data and examining assumptions made related to data
That is not calling me a fake Christian, so its just you being you and having your own thoughts, and its not wrong to disagree with me. I disagree with you on how you go about certain ideas but should let you be. We all have a log in our eye.
 
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