• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christians only: Will people burn in eternal hellfire?

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
Growing up in church, the teaching that all non Christians will burn in eternal hellfire upon death was extremely prevalent. It seems to be presently prevalent in my community.
It was when I began adapting syncretic beliefs that I let go of this dread of eternal hellfire. Though I was taught I wouldn’t burn, I was taught that most of the people I knew would burn upon death. This looming existential crisis gave me enduring stress, though I was “saved”.
I have found that the Christians I encounter online generally don’t hold this belief of eternal hellfire for non Christians. I am curious about what fellow Christians believe about the idea of Hell. Who believes that most of RF is going to hell? To be tactless about it
For my personal beliefs, I believe that only the very very worse people, like Illuminati type folk, go to hell. Essentially anyone who is in a direct and conscious league with the Devil to diminish mankind on a global level. Other than these extreme cases, I believe anyone who doesn’t receive the salivation of Jesus’s blood are simply reborn until they come to accept it.
I’m rereading the gospels sometime to find the verse in which Jesus is talking which helped lead me to the conclusion that only the very worse go to hell, and all else will be saved. :D I dunno off the top of my head
 
Last edited:

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
God does not look at religion.
Christianity has the teaching from God that to accept your sin, ask forgiveness, and to accept Jesus as the one who took your eternal death away, and the Holy spirit living in you, is a guarantee to everlasting life.

Furthermore, God says he knows the heart and mind of all men!
Therefore, a rightious God will not be unjust in his judgement, and God is not made up by human rules and rituals.
To him such rituals and regulations are idolatory.

If you read the words of Jesus, you will find the very same descripotion on how to attain eternal life, or to discard God to obtain everlasting removal from His presence, which will be a spiritual torment.

And yes, many so called Christians might not be saved by their own prescribed rules they impose to others.
If I was Satan, I would preach from the pulpit to deceive everyone, or I will call out for a weekly prayer to teach terror, hatred and violence.

God knows everything in your heart and mind. Open it up, and you can hear Him speak to you.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Growing up in church, the teaching that all non Christians will burn in eternal hellfire upon death was extremely prevalent. It seems to be presently prevalent in my community.
It was when I began adapting syncretic beliefs that I let go of this dread of eternal hellfire. Though I was taught I wouldn’t burn, I was taught that most of the people I knew would burn upon death. This looming existential crisis gave me enduring stress, though I was “saved”.
Fear of hell is not so common in Australia...we are a very secular nation, not really spiritual by nature and quite hedonistic.
So I grew up with a vague notion of "hell" but never was scared by it. It didn't worry me because I was never taught to fear life after death.

I have found that the Christians I encounter online generally don’t hold this belief of eternal hellfire for non Christians. I am curious about what fellow Christians believe about the idea of Hell. Who believes that most of RF is going to hell? To be tactless about it
When I dispensed with the church, (late teens early 20's) I was curious about a lot of things that seemed to have no answers, but losing my father very suddenly made me start to wonder about what happens to people when they die? Where had my father gone? Was he in some kind of heaven....or was he in a place of suffering? It bothered me to no end worrying about it. Then I encountered some people who wanted to teach me what the Bible said...no strings attached. My first question was "where are the dead?"
I didn't expect an answer very different to what I had heard in church, but boy was I in for a surprise......a pleasant one. They turned the Bible to Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10....and got me to read it....

"For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have a reward any longer, for their memory is forgotten. . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in Sheol where you are going."

So what is "sheol"? Other translations render it "grave"....(I looked it up in my own KJV.)

I also looked it up in the Jewish Tanakh.
This scripture was telling me that my Dad wasn't in heaven or hell....he was still in his grave not knowing anything and not in a conscious state. How could that be?
I had no idea that the OT taught about resurrection, not immortality of the soul. So what is a resurrection and why is it different to believing that a spiritual part of us goes somewhere immediately after death?
Resurrection is restoring the life that was lost, and Jesus gave us an example with his friend Lazarus.

Where did Jesus say Lazarus had gone?
John 11:11-14...
"...after this He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going so that I may awaken him from sleep.” 12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will come out of it.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about actual sleep. 14 So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus died"...

So telling his disciples that Lazarus had "fallen asleep" really mean that Lazarus had died....and Jesus was going there to wake him up. That is a resurrection. It took me some time to process this new thought because I had always believed that at death people either went to heaven or some place of punishment in spirit form.
These teachers went on to show me many more scriptures and it was amazing to read from the Bible itself what the answers were. People had tried to answer from their own opinions before, but no two people seemed to believe the same things. None of them used the Bible to answer my questions...but these people did.

For my personal beliefs, I believe that only the very very worse people, like Illuminati type folk, go to hell.
According to the Bible...everyone goes to "hell", because it is just the grave....nothing more scary than that. No one survives death......until Jesus calls people out of their graves...they "rest in peace". (John 5:28-29)

So where did this concept of being tortured in flames forever come from?
Apart from its pagan roots, this 'fiery hell' was a misinterpretation of Jesus' reference to a place called "gehenna".
Jesus used this place as a symbol...not of everlasting torment, but of everlasting death. It is the "lake of fire" mentioned in Revelation....also called "the second death"....so what is "gehenna"?

It was the Valley of Hinnom, just outside the walls of Jerusalem where faithless Jews once sacrificed their children in the fire to Molech. God made the King turn it into a garbage dump where fires were kept burning day and night with the addition of brimstone (sulfur) so that the flames never went out. All of Jerusalem's refuse went into Gehenna.....including the carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals who were not considered worthy of a decent burial. Things went into gehenna to be destroyed, not tormented because nothing alive was ever thrown in there.

To a Jew, having their body pitched into Gehenna was a sure sign that God would not remember them in the resurrection. Jewish graves were always marked with the name of the person and their lineage because it was believed that in the resurrection, God would call them out of their tombs, much like Jesus called Lazarus out of his tomb. Lazarus never once said where he had been because he didn't go anywhere. He was just "sleeping".

I was finally able to put my Dad to rest.....I knew he was not suffering and I knew he was not conscious. He would sleep until the resurrection....I could live with that.

Essentially anyone who is in a direct and conscious league with the Devil to diminish mankind on a global level. Other than these extreme cases, I believe anyone who doesn’t receive the salivation of Jesus’s blood are simply reborn until they come to accept it.
Now you are talking about reincarnation, which is not found anywhere in the Bible. There is no immortal soul to be born again in another body. There is just life and death......no torture.

I’m rereading the gospels sometime to find the verse in which Jesus is talking which helped lead me to the conclusion that only the very worse go to hell, and all else will be saved. :D I dunno off the top of my head
The Bible teaches that "the wages sin pays is death"....so when a person dies, they have paid for all past sins. (Romans 6:7) Jesus' sacrifice gives them an opportunity to start life again by resurrection, where all are given a clean slate....a chance to prove to God that they can obey him if they want to enjoy the life he has in store for them in paradise on earth. (John 5:28-29)

No one will be forced to accept a life that they do not want. So "the second death” awaits those who cannot obey the rules.
Jesus said...."And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna." (Matthew 10:28)

Can you see there that those who end up in "gehenna" are "destroyed"...not tortured. It is a place of everlasting death....whatever goes into the lake of fire, never comes out.

So Jesus never taught about punishment after death.....the soul is mortal and when the body dies the soul dies too. (Ezekiel 18:4) The dead "sleep"....most who have died down through history will be resurrected, but some will never wake up if God deems them to be incorrigibly wicked.....like the Pharisees who plotted Christ's death and the man who betrayed him. These "sinned against the holy spirit", and will never be seen again.
 
Last edited:

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Growing up in church, the teaching that all non Christians will burn in eternal hellfire upon death was extremely prevalent. It seems to be presently prevalent in my community.
It was when I began adapting syncretic beliefs that I let go of this dread of eternal hellfire. Though I was taught I wouldn’t burn, I was taught that most of the people I knew would burn upon death. This looming existential crisis gave me enduring stress, though I was “saved”.
I have found that the Christians I encounter online generally don’t hold this belief of eternal hellfire for non Christians. I am curious about what fellow Christians believe about the idea of Hell. Who believes that most of RF is going to hell? To be tactless about it
For my personal beliefs, I believe that only the very very worse people, like Illuminati type folk, go to hell. Essentially anyone who is in a direct and conscious league with the Devil to diminish mankind on a global level. Other than these extreme cases, I believe anyone who doesn’t receive the salivation of Jesus’s blood are simply reborn until they come to accept it.
I’m rereading the gospels sometime to find the verse in which Jesus is talking which helped lead me to the conclusion that only the very worse go to hell, and all else will be saved. :D I dunno off the top of my head
Especially when un-faithful Jews began mixing with the Greeks they adopted a religious-myth hell.
A religious-myth hell of fire and burning forever that is being taught as being Scripture but is Not Scripture.
Jesus and the OT both teach sleep in death -> John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Since biblically the 'dead are in a sleep-like state' they are Not aware of anything including the passing of time.
Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the unconscious dead.- Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
When King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that helped teach flames in biblical hell.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were: destroyed.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for: Destruction.
The Bible teaches it is 'destruction' for the wicked - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:34; Proverbs 2:21-22; Proverbs 10:7B.
The Bible's temporary hell/grave comes to final end according to Rev. 20:13-14.
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' (resurrected) then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell.
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
Fear of hell is not so common in Australia...we are a very secular nation, not really spiritual by nature and quite hedonistic.
In America, it is a lot more common for pastors to try to “scare the Hell out of you” as they put it. Not pleasant and rather toxic me thinks :eek: I’ve been relieved to find that it is not such a common belief among Christians as I was led to believe.
According to the Bible...everyone goes to "hell", because it is just the grave....nothing more scary than that. No one survives death......until Jesus calls people out of their graves...they "rest in peace".
Your conclusion makes sense to me :D
Now you are talking about reincarnation, which is not found anywhere in the Bible. There is no immortal soul to be born again in another body. There is just life and death......no torture.
This personal view of mine is liable to change. I didn’t believe in reincarnation until somewhat recently, and before that I had my childhood views of Heaven and Hell.
On the topic of reincarnation, let me pose this question; was Jesus: reincarnated, or was He resurrected?
Reincarnation: the rebirth of a soul into a new body
Resurrection: to restore a dead person back to life
I believe Jesus Christ was reincarnated.
When He was about to die, God departed from Him. God did this so Jesus Christ could literally take all of mankind’s sins with Him to the grave.
So it wasn’t sinless Jesus who died, but it was a man with all of sin attached to His soul.
I’ll have to find the Bible reference that supports this following idea, but I believe that Jesus Christ died and went to the place the fallen angels are being held. I’m quite sure the Bible says Jesus was preaching to the fallen angels on those three days He was there. (Sorry for being dry on specific verses, I’ll look for it soon and reply again)
I don’t think Jesus went to Sheol.
after those three days, Jesus is alive again. He is in the same physical body, as proven to Thomas with the holes from the nails. But He is not reborn into that sinful body that died on the cross. I believe He was reincarnated into a new, sinless body.
This may seem oddly specific but I’m getting to a point I think
When Jesus was done with His earthly life after He emerged from the tomb, what happened? He ascended to Heaven, rather than going to the place He went last time. I believe it is because He was in two separate bodies. The one on the cross had negative karmic energy attached while the one who went to Heaven had positive karmic energy attached.
The reason I see it as reincarnation is because the events that happened with Jesus parallel Buddhist teachings on reincarnation (at least How I understand them)
In Buddhist doctrine, The cycle of life, death, rebirth, and then Heaven goes something like this.
1. We live a life, but do not become enlightened.
2. We die, and travel between births
3. We are reborn, but this time do become enlightened
4. We die, and are not reborn. Instead, we enter Nirvana (perfect unity with God)

the cycle of Jesus’s life and death parallels this
1. Jesus was born enlightened. We all are, right? But it’s the sin of the world and our spirits which eventually causes us to need salivation. Like, a newborn is not in need of spiritual salvation, for example. On the cross, Jesus became in need of salvation when God departed from Him. This is the equivalent to us needing salvation.
2. Jesus died with an unenlightened spirit, and travels to where the fallen angels are being held (as they await the final judgement). This was the only place that Jesus could go upon death, the sheer totality of negative karma He brought to the grave dictates it.
3 Jesus emerges from the tomb, but He is not the sin riddled man He was on the cross. He is a new man, with a new spirit. If we view the salvation available through the blood of Jesus as enlightenment, we can say at this point, Jesus was enlightened.
4 Jesus doesn’t die, but He does ascend into Heaven, entering perfect unity with God. I believe that if we accept salvation through His blood, we too will enter Nirvana.

I believe that Jesus opened up the path to Heaven for all of us through our actions. I think that He went through the rebirth cycle that we all go through, in our quest to free ourselves from sin and find God.
furthermore, I think humanity as a collective could ascend just like Jesus did. If all of humanity was consciously moral and serving God, I believe this “rapture” would happen. It would simply require all of humanity to turn their spirits towards God
I know reincarnation is not usually a Christian view, but what can I say I’m a syncretist.
Jesus’s death and life is the main Biblical evidence that I think could support reincarnation.
I suppose I feel like I’ve met friends from past lives. Have a shared memory of past life with one of them, so that was enough to personally cement my beliefs in reincarnation.

always a pleasure discussing the Bible with you :)
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
Growing up in church, the teaching that all non Christians will burn in eternal hellfire upon death was extremely prevalent. It seems to be presently prevalent in my community.
It was when I began adapting syncretic beliefs that I let go of this dread of eternal hellfire. Though I was taught I wouldn’t burn, I was taught that most of the people I knew would burn upon death. This looming existential crisis gave me enduring stress, though I was “saved”.
I have found that the Christians I encounter online generally don’t hold this belief of eternal hellfire for non Christians. I am curious about what fellow Christians believe about the idea of Hell. Who believes that most of RF is going to hell? To be tactless about it
For my personal beliefs, I believe that only the very very worse people, like Illuminati type folk, go to hell. Essentially anyone who is in a direct and conscious league with the Devil to diminish mankind on a global level. Other than these extreme cases, I believe anyone who doesn’t receive the salivation of Jesus’s blood are simply reborn until they come to accept it.
I’m rereading the gospels sometime to find the verse in which Jesus is talking which helped lead me to the conclusion that only the very worse go to hell, and all else will be saved. :D I dunno off the top of my head


While we are alive, we experience things through our five senses and may easily never (try/want/be able to) understand the full implications of our own actions. Therefore, we can live in a sort of “ignorant bliss”. But when we leave this world, we return to source [God]. Then, we will no longer be able to not understand the full implications of our own actions and, if those implications are good we will be at peace [Heaven], but if those implications are bad, we will be in turmoil [Hell] and - as we are no longer embodied - it will be too late for us to do anything about it, so our state of turmoil [Hell] will not be short.

In Christianity it is thought that if we, in life, follow the ideal of Christ (not the ideal of a particular church, note), we are less likely to contribute to bad and so, less likely to be stuck in turmoil once we are in spirit.


Humbly
Hermit
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Growing up in church, the teaching that all non Christians will burn in eternal hellfire upon death was extremely prevalent. It seems to be presently prevalent in my community.
It was when I began adapting syncretic beliefs that I let go of this dread of eternal hellfire. Though I was taught I wouldn’t burn, I was taught that most of the people I knew would burn upon death. This looming existential crisis gave me enduring stress, though I was “saved”.
I have found that the Christians I encounter online generally don’t hold this belief of eternal hellfire for non Christians. I am curious about what fellow Christians believe about the idea of Hell. Who believes that most of RF is going to hell? To be tactless about it
For my personal beliefs, I believe that only the very very worse people, like Illuminati type folk, go to hell. Essentially anyone who is in a direct and conscious league with the Devil to diminish mankind on a global level. Other than these extreme cases, I believe anyone who doesn’t receive the salivation of Jesus’s blood are simply reborn until they come to accept it.
I’m rereading the gospels sometime to find the verse in which Jesus is talking which helped lead me to the conclusion that only the very worse go to hell, and all else will be saved. :D I dunno off the top of my head

Good question
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
In America, it is a lot more common for pastors to try to “scare the Hell out of you” as they put it. Not pleasant and rather toxic me thinks :eek: I’ve been relieved to find that it is not such a common belief among Christians as I was led to believe.
Turning a hose on Hell would be a relief to many people I think....
God wants willing obedience out of love, not coercion out of fear.

Your conclusion makes sense to me :D
It gave me comfort and peace of mind, rather than the dread of worrying where my Dad was, and if he was suffering. He had lost his only brother (and best friend) in the war and it shattered his belief in God. I so wish he could have known what I know now. :( I now have confidence that when God’s kingdom comes, he will be resurrected and so will his brother to spend eternity together in the restored paradise. (John 5:28-29)

On the topic of reincarnation, let me pose this question; was Jesus: reincarnated, or was He resurrected?
Reincarnation: the rebirth of a soul into a new body
Resurrection: to restore a dead person back to life
I believe Jesus Christ was reincarnated.
If you understand that resurrection is a restoration of life rather than a continuation of it, then Jesus was not reincarnated. He was resurrected in a body that God gave him....a spirit body.

Jesus was in Sheol because he had to be dead for three days as it was prophesied. Like Lazarus, Jesus did not go anywhere. His life did not continue because he was 100% human and his death had to pay for what Adam did to his children. Being raised in a different body was still a resurrection, just as those who are chosen to rule with him in his Kingdom will have to die in the flesh to be raised in the spirit as Jesus was. (1 Peter 3:18; Romans 6:4-5)
Most humans will enjoy a physical resurrection on earth, restored to the life that God intended for them. Very few are promised heaven.

When He was about to die, God departed from Him. God did this so Jesus Christ could literally take all of mankind’s sins with Him to the grave.
So it wasn’t sinless Jesus who died, but it was a man with all of sin attached to His soul.
If you understand how redemption works, Jesus paid a ransom for the release of those sold into slavery by Adam’s disobedience. The price was paid and we are all now waiting to go “home”.

“Life for life” was God’s law.....but no sinful human could pay the debt.....Jesus alone had the ransom price.

I’ll have to find the Bible reference that supports this following idea, but I believe that Jesus Christ died and went to the place the fallen angels are being held. I’m quite sure the Bible says Jesus was preaching to the fallen angels on those three days He was there. (Sorry for being dry on specific verses, I’ll look for it soon and reply again)
I have seen this mentioned before...
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.“ (1 Peter 3:18-20)
Jesus was “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”....this resurrection happened three days after he died, and this is when he went and ‘preached to the spirits in prison’. His return to spirit form allowed him to do what he could not do in the flesh.
The restraints that these rebel spirits were under, did not allow them to materialise as they had done in Noah’s day. And it stands to reason that this was a judgment message that Jesus delivered since these spirits are condemned to “the lake of fire”....everlasting death. (Matthew 25:41)

I don’t think Jesus went to Sheol.
There is no other place for dead humans to go. The grave (Sheol, hades) is where we all go....Jesus had to be completely human in order to pay the redemption price for the human race....so his death had to be the same as ours. His body was placed in a tomb, like any other human who died.

after those three days, Jesus is alive again. He is in the same physical body, as proven to Thomas with the holes from the nails. But He is not reborn into that sinful body that died on the cross. I believe He was reincarnated into a new, sinless body.
This may seem oddly specific but I’m getting to a point I think
Actually because Jesus was raised as a spirit, he was able to do what other spirit being had done all through the Bible...that is to materialise human bodies in order to bring God’s messages to his his human servants.

Jesus knew that God’s law forbade his people to communicate with spirits, so God’s spirit servants always materialised in physical form.
Jesus did not reside with his apostles for the 40 days that he remained after his resurrection, as he had done for the previous three and a half years...but the accounts reveal that he “appeared” to them. His disciples saw him and ate with him but often he was not recognised because he could take on whatever body he wished.....he made one with the wound marks of his execution in order to convince a doubting Thomas, but at other times, no wounds were mentioned. (Considering that he was tortured before his death, his poor physical condition would have been obvious if he had been raised in the same body.)
On another occasion whilst eating with his disciples, he simply vanished in front of their eyes. (Luke 23:31)

When Jesus was done with His earthly life after He emerged from the tomb, what happened? He ascended to Heaven, rather than going to the place He went last time. I believe it is because He was in two separate bodies. The one on the cross had negative karmic energy attached while the one who went to Heaven had positive karmic energy attached.
The reason I see it as reincarnation is because the events that happened with Jesus parallel Buddhist teachings on reincarnation (at least How I understand them)
Now you are getting into excursions into other religious beliefs.....this is something that God expressly forbade for his people to do. Their worship had to be exclusively that which was prescribed by God. No one was permitted to contaminate God’s worship with ideas taken from other religions. When Israel did that, God showed them in no uncertain terms that he was very displeased....punishment followed.
The apostle Paul stated that we cannot mix true worship with false worship. We have to separate from that because it is spiritually “unclean” to God. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

In Buddhist doctrine, The cycle of life, death, rebirth, and then Heaven goes something like this.
1. We live a life, but do not become enlightened.
2. We die, and travel between births
3. We are reborn, but this time do become enlightened
4. We die, and are not reborn. Instead, we enter Nirvana (perfect unity with God)

the cycle of Jesus’s life and death parallels this
No, sorry.....none of this is even close to what Jesus taught.....
In order to believe these things you must do what Paul said was unacceptable to God.....you are trying to incorporate other religious ideas to marry them with Bible truth. It might sound OK to you, but how does God feel about it? He has already told us.

I believe that Jesus opened up the path to Heaven for all of us through our actions. I think that He went through the rebirth cycle that we all go through, in our quest to free ourselves from sin and find God.
furthermore, I think humanity as a collective could ascend just like Jesus did. If all of humanity was consciously moral and serving God, I believe this “rapture” would happen. It would simply require all of humanity to turn their spirits towards God
And where do those ideas come from? Do you understand that none of us are at liberty to “invent” our own religion? Can you see that this is what you appear to be doing?
Not every Christian is promised heaven....because heaven was never even in our future if our first parents had simply obeyed that one simple command. Jesus would never have been needed to undo the damage that those first rebels caused....imagine if Eve had told the devil to “get lost”! What life would they have lived?

I know reincarnation is not usually a Christian view, but what can I say I’m a syncretist.
I know that people like to put labels on themselves in order to distinguish themselves from others, but don’t we have to ask how God views our beliefs? If they are out of harmony with what God’s word says then why adopt them? If what is acceptable to us is not acceptable to God, then of what benefit is it to hold those beliefs?

Jesus’s death and life is the main Biblical evidence that I think could support reincarnation.
I suppose I feel like I’ve met friends from past lives. Have a shared memory of past life with one of them, so that was enough to personally cement my beliefs in reincarnation.
Ah...so there is a reason why you have adopted belief in reincarnation? What if the rebel spirits who are active in the world have ways and means of implanting false memories in people? These demons have been around as long as we have, and they know everything about everyone....why do you think that God’s law forbade any contact with spirits? NDE’s, supposed past life experiences, and contact with the dead, all can be manipulated to present falsehood as truth. The deceiver has had millenniums to perfect his craft.

always a pleasure discussing the Bible with you :)
Thank you for the opportunity to share what I have learned over many years as a Bible student and teacher.
You have an inquiring mind and that is a good thing...but be careful where it takes you my friend.
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
Now you are getting into excursions into other religious beliefs.....this is something that God expressly forbade for his people to do. Their worship had to be exclusively that which was prescribed by God. No one was permitted to contaminate God’s worship with ideas taken from other religions.
If all the other religions are truly false, I’m confident I’ll realize that sometime. The beginning of my syncretic beliefs were the result of me believing that God reached out to all people of all time periods.
One time in conversation with you, I brought this idea up, saying that I believe that the Native Americans had access to God while they were still separated from the rest of the world. You made a counter point which made sense to me, something like “God didn’t necessarily have to have a purpose for them or their souls” I forget exactly what you said, but it made sense. Because before, when I would think of the native Americans, my upbringing said that all of them went to hell. I thought that was simply not fair.
Since then, what keeps me a strong believer of syncretism is the religious texts of other religions. The Confucian revered texts, the Bhagavad Gita, Tibetan Book of the Dead, Tao Te Ching, and the Dhammapada. So far I have read these sacred texts, and I feel like they teach me in the same way the Bible does. That feeling of closeness you get when you read the Bible, I get that when I read these texts. The one thing they all agree on for sure is that God is love. I feel that I find that I can implement the teachings of the book with perfect unity to my Christian practice.
I recommend reading the Dhammapada. They are the words of Buddha, it reads simply like a conversation. Perhaps you have read it. I’m curious about what your thoughts on Buddhism would be after reading it. Would it be unchanged? I see Buddhism as a discipline. I practice my Christianity through Buddhist disciplines.
I was wary to identify as a syncretist until rather recently. If I’m wrong, I’m confident God will thump me on the head if I keep being loud about syncretism.


rebel spirits
Hey, that’s something I haven’t considered :eek:
I practice cleromancy through the Confucian text, the I Ching. I’ve figured that i could know it is legit because I always get direct answers. But an intelligent, but evil, spirit could very easily be influencing the coins. Something I haven’t considered!
I was thinking to make a one-on-one thread with you to discuss cleromancy specifically. I would propose arguments for the I Ching not being witchcraft. I’m curious about the fact that the Bible denounces divination as evil in some passages, but yet there is many passages in which divination is used, with seemingly positive connotations and implications. I think that if it’s sin depends on who you are seeking divination from, whether you seek answers from God, or seek answers elsewhere. Then there’d have to be the debate whether or not any body has the right to go ahead and attempt divination in the first place.
A tangent and a thread for another time though :D;)


You have an inquiring mind and that is a good thing...but be careful where it takes you my friend.
My self-assessed intellect makes me very prideful at times, causing me to be careless. I appreciate the thought!
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
what keeps me a strong believer of syncretism is the religious texts of other religions. The Confucian revered texts, the Bhagavad Gita, Tibetan Book of the Dead, Tao Te Ching, and the Dhammapada. So far I have read these sacred texts, and I feel like they teach me in the same way the Bible does. That feeling of closeness you get when you read the Bible, I get that when I read these texts. The one thing they all agree on for sure is that God is love. I feel that I find that I can implement the teachings of the book with perfect unity to my Christian practice.
You do understand that Buddhism has no God(s)? Can it then be acceptable to the God who does exist?
Don't forget that satan is a mimic.....he has to be to entrap his worshippers unwittingly.

I am reminded of a couple of scriptures here....

2 Corinthians 6:14-18...
"Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 ‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” 18 “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”

Can you see how many things are listed there that God declares are unacceptable to him? All have in common mixing the truth with false beliefs....something Israel tried to do...but always ending with God's punishment for disobeying his strict commands in connection with false religion.

You see, from God's perspective, there is only truth and lies.....there is nothing in between. We are given the choice between two paths...one leads to life, the other leads to death. One is easy...one is very difficult.
How many are traveling the wrong road and why? (Matthew 7:13-14)

We are also given the choice between belonging in one of only two categories...."sheep or goats".....that is how God sees us. Regardless of what we might want to call ourselves or what we choose to believe, God sees us as belonging in only one of two places....with him or against him. So our freedom of choice is not as broad as we might imagine. "Shopping" in "the great celestial supermarket" might mean that all the goods have the same supplier....so its buyer beware. We must all do our homework.

The other scripture is in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15...
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works."

This "angel of light" masquerades as a friend....and so do his "ministers"....offering seemingly harmless and even beneficial advantages if you adopt his practices. Spiritism is a trap for many people, allowing their fascination with the occult to lure them into satan's lair. "Perfect unity" can never be achieved by accepting a counterfeit as the real thing. In order to spot a clever counterfeit, you don't have to know what all the fakes look like because some of them appear flawless....all you have to know is what the genuine article looks like and the fakes will identify themselves.

I’m curious about what your thoughts on Buddhism would be after reading it. Would it be unchanged? I see Buddhism as a discipline. I practice my Christianity through Buddhist disciplines.
Discipline is good when it is carried out according to the will of God. What disciplines do you practice particularly?
Part of the global appeal of Buddhism is its peaceful appearance and its attuning to nature...neither of which is bad in and of itself.....but Buddhist Temples are full of idols....the 'making' of which, God expressly forbids.

I was wary to identify as a syncretist until rather recently. If I’m wrong, I’m confident God will thump me on the head if I keep being loud about syncretism.
Not necessarily, but if you seek him with a good heart and an obedient spirit he will invite you into his family. (John 6:44, 65)

Hey, that’s something I haven’t considered :eek:
I practice cleromancy through the Confucian text, the I Ching. I’ve figured that i could know it is legit because I always get direct answers. But an intelligent, but evil, spirit could very easily be influencing the coins. Something I haven’t considered!
I was thinking to make a one-on-one thread with you to discuss cleromancy specifically. I would propose arguments for the I Ching not being witchcraft. I’m curious about the fact that the Bible denounces divination as evil in some passages, but yet there is many passages in which divination is used, with seemingly positive connotations and implications. I think that if it’s sin depends on who you are seeking divination from, whether you seek answers from God, or seek answers elsewhere. Then there’d have to be the debate whether or not any body has the right to go ahead and attempt divination in the first place.
A tangent and a thread for another time though :D;)
Happy to participate....fire away. :)

My self-assessed intellect makes me very prideful at times, causing me to be careless. I appreciate the thought!
The Bible says that "knowledge puffs up, but love builds up"...we all have to understand that we are just infants on this planet, waiting to grow up in the love and endless education that our Father will give us. Exploring all that this planet holds within itself, will take many lifetimes.......I am eagerly awaiting that time...I love to learn and I can see that you do too. ;)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
........................... But when we leave this world, we return to source [God]. Then, we will no longer be able to not understand the full implications of our own actions and, if those implications are good we will be at peace [Heaven], but if those implications are bad, we will be in turmoil [Hell] and - as we are no longer embodied - it will be too late for us to do anything about it, so our state of turmoil [Hell] will not be short.
In Christianity it is thought that if we, in life, follow the ideal of Christ (not the ideal of a particular church, note), we are less likely to contribute to bad and so, less likely to be stuck in turmoil once we are in spirit........

But in what way do we ' return ' to the Source - Ecclesiastes 12:7
One's spirit is Not a person but a neuter " it " according to Ecclesiastes 12:7.
So, we ' return ' in the sense that any future life now lies in God's safe hands.
In death Jesus taught there is peace because the dead are in a sleep-like state according to Jesus at John 11:11-14.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures and Not in some non-biblical schools.
The OT also teaches the dead are sleeping - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Does anyone know of anyone righteous that at death went to hell _____________
According to Acts 2:27 righteous dead Jesus went to hell the day he died.
Not to some burning 'religious-myth hell' but the biblical temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
If biblical hell was permanent place Jesus would still be there.
Biblical hell comes to a final end according to Revelation 20:13-14.
After everyone is 'delivered up' (resurrected out of the grave/hell) then emptied-out hell is cast empty into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell/ grave.
This is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the 'future tense' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......
A resurrection out of death's deep sleep when Jesus governs over Earth for a thousand years.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
God does not look at religion.
Christianity has the teaching from God that to accept your sin, ask forgiveness, and to accept Jesus as the one who took your eternal death away, and the Holy spirit living in you, is a guarantee to everlasting life........
I find the guarantee leading to everlasting life is found at Matthew 24:14 and Acts 1:8 to endure to the end.
Endure faithful to death, or endure faithful to Jesus' coming Glory Time of Matthew 25:31-33,37.
God does look at religion/worship according to James 1:27 and John 4:23-24.
Rather, God does Not look at 'false religion' religious-myth ideas and practices as Not found in Scripture.
False religion is what God does Not look at - Matthew 15:9
This is why Jesus pronounced his many ' woes ' against false-religious teachers in the 23rd chapter of Matthew.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
If all the other religions are truly false, I’m confident I’ll realize that sometime. The beginning of my syncretic beliefs were the result of me believing that God reached out to all people of all time periods...........................

I find the beginning of syncretic beliefs can be traced way back to ancient Babylon.
As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their false religious-myth ideas and practices and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
This is why we see so many similar or overlapping religious-myth ideas and practices in today's religious world.

First, God mainly reached out to the one nation of ancient Israel because of God's promise to father Abraham.
ALL families of Earth would be blessed because of Abraham, and ALL nations of Earth would be blessed because of Abraham - Genesis 3:12; Genesis 22:18 - Messiah would come through Abraham's son Isaac.....

The resurrection includes that God reached out to all people of all time periods going back to starting with Abel.
This is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 says that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection........
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I am curious about what fellow Christians believe about the idea of Hell. Who believes that most of RF is going to hell? To be tactless about it

According to Ecclesiastes 9:10, everyone (reading that verse) at death goes to Hell. (So don’t read it! Don’t read it! Lol)

EDIT:
Well, I just now saw @Deeje ‘s post , so no need for my input.

I noticed though that you said this to her:
Hey, that’s something I haven’t considered :eek:
I practice cleromancy through the Confucian text, the I Ching. I’ve figured that i could know it is legit because I always get direct answers. But an intelligent, but evil, spirit could very easily be influencing the coins. Something I haven’t considered!

That is really a humble attitude! We all need that, to change our thinking when what we learn from Scripture is different than what we thought!
Regarding your statement above…. keep in mind who the Bible says is in control of this world, & influencing people! Revelation 12:9; Luke 4:5-6; John 12:31; John 14:30.
(I mean, really…if you look at how so many people are suffering, the idea that an evil one is *currently* in control of this world, almost screams at you!)

Take care, my cousin.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I’ve been relieved to find that it is not such a common belief among Christians as I was led to believe.

That could be, but it has done its damage. Those piously devout have used the teaching to justify being stern, hateful and vindictive.
Jehovah God and Jesus are none of those things.
Such a teaching has turned people away from wanting to develop a close relationship with God. No doubt, such a concept was the beginning that has led many on a path to atheism. Certainly not God’s desire.
Who’s does it fit?
 
Top