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Christians Only: Shroud of Turin?

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Eddi, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. Eddi

    Eddi reformed crackpot

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    This is in Same Faith Debates - Christians only please!

    shroudofturin.jpg
    Imagine: Scientists extract human DNA from the Shroud of Turin

    (And that the DNA comes from the person whose image it bears)

    They then make a clone of that person, using the DNA of the man on the shroud...

    Question: How should Christians treat such clone?

    I think it would depend on whether or not the Shroud of Turin truly features Jesus

    As a Christian I would be very sceptical about the man on the shroud being Jesus Christ

    But if the clone could perform miracles that would be something else - if he could do that I would consider him to be God's grandson

    But no, he wouldn't be Jesus, and neither would he be The Messiah or our Lord or Saviour

    He would be something else - what exactly I am not sure. Perhaps Jesus's son?

    And yes, I suppose it would be possible for him to be the clone of Jesus whilst not being able to perform miracles - but miracles would be the proof that the person he was cloned from was Jesus!

    Although yes, Jesus's miracles came from God, not from his own personal biology...

    Unless of course that is how we are supposed to bring about the second coming???? By cloning the man on the shroud???? To provide a human vessel for Jesus's soul, to make the reincarnation of Christ happen???? Using human technologies????
     
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  2. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    This is one of those "What if the sky were made of concrete?" questions.

    I'll pass.
     
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  3. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    First of all, being a Christian doesn't really require to believe in the authenticity of relics.
    The Holy Shroud is certainly one of the most controversial, and the reasons are so numerous.

    As for human clonation, I as a Christian believe it is unethical. Since one of the most sacred mysteries of Christianity, motherhood is desecrated to satisfy scientists' curiosity.

    Personally I believe the Shroud is authentic.
    But it is just a personal belief of mine. It is rightful that Christians are prudent and sceptical when it deals with these "elements of faith" which are unnecessary for Salvation.
     
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  4. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    The Shroud remains a sacred symbol for many Christians, its authenticity notwithstanding.
     
  5. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus rose as a glorified man and has a human vessel already.
    Col 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.
    Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him,
     
  6. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    While the shroud is obviously venerated by the Catholic Church. The linen is not old enough to be related to Jesus and the crucifixion in any way.

    " The fibres were radiocarbon-dated in three separate laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Arizona and the paper concluded that, with 95% confidence, the age of the material was medieval: between 1260 and 1390. The first historical record of the shroud appears too in the fourteenth century."

    I am quite happy to leave it at that.

    Any mystery attached as to how it was made is curious, but not important from a religious perspective. It is well known that a majority of religious reliques from the middle ages were faked, and very few even from human remains.

    Fake news is as old as mankind.
     
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  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Clones are nothing more than a biological twin created at a later time. Jesus' twin is not going to be Jesus, any more than anyone else's twin is anything more than a biological duplicate.
     
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  8. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    PureX just responded with what I was going to say. DNA is not a person. Identical twins are not the same person. A clone would not the same person, unless you consider skin and organs to define who and what we are. "I am my body". A child a two or three might think that, but not most adults.

    To imagine they would be the same person, is scientific reductionism gone completely off the rails, more than it already is.
     
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