MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
[
The fallen angels are not the satanic host
The fallen angels are not the satanic host
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christians only: Pacifism is the Celestial Embodiment of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter MonkeyFire
- Start date
By host I think you are referring to Satan.
The fallen angels then are the demons ,or demonic angels, who fell with host Satan.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
In my bible it says Lucifer was initquitous only after an eternity in Heaven, but Satan was evil from his onstart.
Satan was evil from the beginning, or from the start, of his 'first' doing wrong. (Not before that)
Unlike us with now imperfect leanings, Satan could only do wrong by deliberate choice - James 1:13-15
MonkeyFire,
It is true that Jesus and his Father do not like war, they are definitely not Pacifists. There are TWO great wars that are ahead of all on the face of all the earth, Luke 21:34,35. This first war coming will be Armageddon, when Jesus comes back to earth to destroy all those who do not KNOW God, and who do not obey our lord Jesus, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10, Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 19:11-21, Acts 17:31.
The LAST war will be at the end of The Thousand Year Judgement Day, when Satan is loosed from the Abyss, and tries to temp the ones living at the end of the Judgement Day. All who follow Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, the Second death, and be forever destroyed. Those not following Satan will be granted Everlasting Life, in the Paradise earth. Even the graves will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, gone forever!!!
Read Revelation chapter 20'then 19 and put the facts there together. These wars must take place, then the earth will be in the condition that God originally purposes for it, Paradise forever!!!
Agape!!!
I can't make heads or tails of the OP. Can you try typing plain English?
MonkeyFire,
The only place that the term Lucifer is used, that I know of,is at Isaiah 14:12, in the King James Version. The American Standard Bible has day-star at that place. Whatever word is used here, it is Satan that is referred to. The words used in any Bibles do not fit, because Lucifer means Light Bearer. Satan is no light bearer. This term would actually fit Jesus better, Ashe is alight bearer. Here the subject that is talked about is the King of Tyre. Verses 12-15 are usually accepted as being Satan, because some of these verses cannot be a man.
Another place that Satan is spoken of in the same way is at Ezekiel 28:12-19, even though they were written about the King of Babylon, most Bible scholars understand the words are also a description of Satan. These verses tell about Satan being a covering cherub, maybe he was supposed to watch over Adam and Eve,but instead lead them wrong. Satan was made by God, so beautiful, and powerful, that it seems, he wanted worship for himself. This causes his Everlasting death at the Last War, Revelation 20:7-10.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
Wrong. Good and evil is forbidden.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Jesus is not a pacifist!! The fact is, Jesus is the one that God assigned to judge the world, Acts 17:29-31. The Bible actually tells us that God has given all the judging to the son, John 5:22. That means that when Jesus comes again, with his angels, it will be time for Armageddon, Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 19:11-21.
Jesus is just like his Father, and God, he does not want to destroy anyone, 2Peter 3:9. When Jesus comes he will rid the earth of all who do not Know God, and all who do not obey, the lord Jesus Christ. This must happen, because God wants Jesus to bring this whole earth and all it's inhabitants into perfection, just as God's purpose stated at Genesis 1:26-28. This cannot happen with so many people who do not love,either God or their neighbor, Matthew 22:34-40, 2Thessalonians 1:6-9. The earth will be brought to a paradise condition during the 1,000 year judgment day, mentioned at Revelation 20:4-10, 21:1-5, Matthew 10:15, 11:22,24.
Jesus is just like his Father, and God, he does not want to destroy anyone, 2Peter 3:9. When Jesus comes he will rid the earth of all who do not Know God, and all who do not obey, the lord Jesus Christ. This must happen, because God wants Jesus to bring this whole earth and all it's inhabitants into perfection, just as God's purpose stated at Genesis 1:26-28. This cannot happen with so many people who do not love,either God or their neighbor, Matthew 22:34-40, 2Thessalonians 1:6-9. The earth will be brought to a paradise condition during the 1,000 year judgment day, mentioned at Revelation 20:4-10, 21:1-5, Matthew 10:15, 11:22,24.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
Armageddon is the final battle, the first being Adam and the forbidden fruit. One can't be a virtue while the other is alright.
S.T.Ranger
Member
Not sure about pacifism, but this...
John 2:13-16
King James Version (KJV)
13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
...seems pretty violent to me.
Imagine someone coming in and doing this at a bake sale set up in the foyer of the local fellowship, lol.
God bless.
My wife and I went on vacation a couple weeks ago. Huge church in this city. We went in and before you get to the pews you have to walk through a gift shop. Is this the same thing as turning the church in to a house of merchandise?
james bond
Well-Known Member
This is correct. Lucifer became the best angel before then.
And I wouldn't say Jesus was passive. What kind of Bible is the OP reading?
Grumpuss
Active Member
He is wondering about the ultimate struggle between good and evil and questioning the rationale of whether it is considered good, per the Holy Bible to fight, when Jesus has commanded us to be at peace.
It's doubly wise, as evil begets evil and violence shall only create more violence. This is evident in Romans 12:21. Also worthy man is promised the greatest reward, and "shall inherit the earth", per Matthew 5:5. Rarely are the lessons so crystal clear.
Temptation and sin are the greatest pitfalls towards maintaining pacifism at all times. We are imbued with pride, though Original Sin be purged, we still have the urge to seek more for ourselves. Hence, the concepts of honor, revenge and heroism are also borne partly from the same dark evil. No one is perfect among us, so we are prone to fall into these pitfalls. It becomes difficult to know sometimes if pacifism should be abandoned. Defending someone who is being bullied, for example; rescue is commendable as Luke 10:25-37 tells us that evil heathen filth is capable of nobility. But striking an attacker for any reason carries the same sin, and the Samaritan balks.
Matthew 5:44 - "But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you"
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
If you believe in passive you get our reality.
Because of the glowing description given about Satan at Ezekiel 28:13-17 then Satan was, I'll say, one of the best.
I agree, Jesus was Not passive because the pre-human heavenly Jesus agreed that God should send him to Earth for us, Jesus being especially fond of us as Psalms 72:12-14 and Proverbs 8:31reads.
I find there is a BIG difference between being passive (pacifism) and self-defence.
Jesus' reality was Not passive when two (2) times Jesus made a whip and chased out the corrupted money changers out of the temple, God's house of worship.
Jesus and his followers were 'neutral' in the affairs of the world, but that does Not mean Jesus is passive because the words from Jesus' mouth will be ' executional ' words to rid the Earth of wickedness according to Isaiah 11:3-4 and Revelation 19:14-16 thus making the world safe for people of goodwill.
Yipes, that is a new one on me ( gift shop!)
I agree about a 'house of merchandise' because twice or two times Jesus threw out the greedy money changers out of the temple, God's house of worship.
What was forbidden was 'breaking the Law of the Land' by eating from God's one-and-only tree.
The knowledge of 'good' was knowing everlasting life in perfect health on a beautiful paradisical Earth forever.
The knowledge of ' evil ' was that breaking the Law meant: death. The evil was: death, or loss of everlasting life.
Or, I find people who are Not a peace with the Golden Rule, and Jesus' New commandment to have self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus did, if they do Not ' repent ' they could ' perish ' (be destroyed) according to 2 Peter 3:9 because Earth was created for the humble meek who will inherit the Earth once the wicked are gone by the executional words from Jesus' mouth according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.