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Christians Only: Explaining the Trinity

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Is there any verse in Bible which clearly says about the idea of trinity? Trinity is the foundation of christianity. But why doesn't God say about Trinity in the bible?

Foundation of Christianity, or foundation of False Christianity - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30 - Christendom (so-called Christian) is often Christian ' in name only ' - Matthew 7:21-23
After the death of the apostles an apostasy set in. The fake ' weed/tares' Christians would grow along with the genuine ' wheat' Christians until the Harvest Time.
We know a harvest comes at the end of the growing season and Not sooner. We are nearing the harvest time of Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8
We are also nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - when humble ' sheep'-like people can remain alive on earth, and continue living on earth, right into the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth, when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Thank you for that friend. Beautifully articulated view. Better explanation than most Christians I have heard including myself. :)
Terrible explanation from a Christian POV, because the explanation of the Son as nothing more than a "reflection" of God makes two mistakes: 1) It reduces Jesus to only human (since all humans are the image of God). 2) The idea that Jesus and the H.S. are some aspect of God is essentially one of the classic heresies.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The terms Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three distinct time periods THAT reference THE SAME BEING. It is not the case that the terms were used at the same time. God the creator of everything is the FATHER because he created things. The term FATHER is being used as a metaphor of course. Jesus, the only begotten SON OF GOD is the FATHER in the form of a HUMAN BEING. If one recalls in the Bible there was a time where the Jews asked God for a KING like THEM. For the Jews could not relate to such a superior intelligence and force. This prayer came true later of course in Jesus being a HUMAN MODEL having NO HUMAN MOTHER and DIRECTLY Formed by God in Mary. No God did not have SEX with Mary. Jesus being born in this way is a MIRACLE and provides a way for HUMANS to connect to GOD directly. Let me make clear the confusion people make: God is not a HUMAN BEING; God's spirit was in the BODY of JESUS. There is a difference. Islam rejects a HUMAN can be GOD; and rightfully so they are correct. Basically Jesus was not HUMAN like you or me: we have two HUMAN parents. Jesus was more like a PUPPET (like I used MODEL earlier) in reality. This is demonstrated in that Jesus did not know certain things and was capable of DYING. If a human were GOD himself it would be impossible to kill him. Ask any Muslim and they will say the same thing about this part. What I am saying is there were times where God removed HIS SPIRIT and those were the weakest points of Jesus's life such as he was not aware of certain things and seemed a bit fallible. The same is true with US: God's spirit can be in us and we function perfectly in God's WILL. The times we misbehave are the times God's Spirit leaves: for God can not co-exist in a dirty vessel for long. HUMANS have a SIN-NATURE which is not a VERB. Emotional people and literal readers think of SIN as an action --a VERB-- that you do to upset God. That has some truth but is too vague when used only in that way. Sin nature is a NOUN and expresses that we are born to do things CONTRARY to GOD and it is OUR job (yours, and mine) to get to know GOD and function in our purpose. A new born has no idea about a GOD. This clearly has to be taught. But how it is taught makes the difference. Once certain concepts are understood a person can grow to know GOD. All human beings had sinned and continued to sin as long as they were alive. Anyone who says otherwise is LYING. Jesus did not have the SIN-NATURE because he was implanted in MARY by GOD. That baby (the skeleton structure) was then used to house the Spirit of GOD because it was PURE. So the baby Jesus is half human objectively and similar to us in many ways. He had his own thoughts! He was a person! But God's spirit worked through Jesus as if God himself was HERE. Hence all persons have SPIRITS. Jesus had a spirit, you have a spirit, etc. God is a spirit and Jesus was HIS BODY (the puppet) GOD manipulated in a unique way --like no OTHER! Jesus had no sin nature and only that scenario allows for someone else to pay for your short comings-- SIN. The wage of SIN is DEATH. Thus this is why our body die and breakdown physically as we age. Jesus paying the price for all who believe in HIM can relate to GOD now and not need for anything else like a priest, prayer cloths, etc. No human can do what jesus did--end of story. You couldn't even if you tried. Catholics tend to get this wrong: they actually buy you CAN keep the commandments or else God would not have given them. (hehe.) Jesus was the ONLY one to have EVER kept every single commandment because he HAD NO SIN NATURE. The catholics miss the point you have to come to GOD to fulfill your purpose and obey rules is not ENOUGH. It HELPS out A LOT but you still miss the relationship of FATHER and Child God wants. The Law was to make things better not to make YOU PERFECT. The time Jesus DIED was the time God withdrew his SPIRIT from the BODY of Jesus; hence that is WHY he physically died. No dead people have Spirits still in them! Jesus's Spirt DIED and was resurrected in the same body and GOD's SPIRIT also came back into that same body. Thus the spirit of Jesus is on the RIGHT hand of the FATHER. The point clearly is that God's spirit intertwined with Jesus's spirit and thought of as one. Objectively they are distinct but are so close in relation they are hard to speak about one without mentioning the other. This goes into the division of spirit and soul as well. The sprit and soul are not the same. God can distinguish them, humans not so much. The Holy Ghost is the part of God that is alive in the world today under a NEW COVENANT. The Old testament God was way more strict and brutal. for there was no savior in the world at that time so God had to do violent things. The savior prevents God from wiping out human beings all together and gives rise to MERCY and people have more chances (likened to a child time out instead of a whooping). The Holy Ghost is a spirit that is said to reside in the heart and mind of a human. It is the HG that gives you the feeling "there is something wrong" or guilt even before you do something stupid you know you were not supposed to do. The HG is the TEACHER or intuition that guides your mind and your mind controls your actions. Thus if you operate in the HG it is impossible to sin. No one is on the level of this 24/7.
Nope. That goes completely against the doctrine. Try again.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Literally speaking Jesus was NOT GOD, but God's spirit operated in Jesus like no OTHER PERSON. Jesus was UNIQUE and we can never equal HIM. The spirit that operated in Jesus was GOD which means the spirit of Jesus was mixed with the Spirit of GOD: kind of making them ONE. So you are not directly looking at GOD the spirit but the BODY God is HOUSED in. Similar to the image in the mirror other people have stated.
I am curious sir, what does you Bible say in 1 John chapter 1 verse 1? What about John 1 verse 1? The context surely makes spirit in Jesus and apart of Jesus before humans.
Incorrect. The Doctrine makes clear that Jesus is God, as the Father is God. It's also clear that the Father is not the Son. You can't just rewrite the Doctrine because you fail to understand it.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Correct ^ above^ Jesus directed worship only to his God - John 4:23-24
1 Corinthians 8:6 mentions there is only one God
The resurrected heavenly Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12
So, the concept of a trinity, or triune God, truly stems from ancient Babylon ( Nimrod) and Not from Scripture.
As the ancient people migrated from ancient Babylon they spread their religious-myth ideas on a global scale, and that is why we see today many overlapping similar religious-myth concepts and ideas spread world wide throughout the earth today into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
Those religious-myth concepts ( trinity, conscious dead, fire in the grave/hell ) are often taught as Scripture although Not really found in Scripture.
That's funny, since a lot of the OT also stems from Babylonian and Sumerian myth.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Well, the idea of the trinity entered christianity some 300 years after Jesus PBUH was among the people. Jesus, even in the heavily changed, corrupted versions of the Bible found today, never once speaks of himself as God or as part of a trinity. The concept is man made and if one were to ask 10 different christians about it, they would get 10 different answers. That is the problem with made teachings passing as religion.
Islam is as much "man-made" as Christianity. Ask why the Shiites are always going up agains the Sunnis. The idea of the Trinity was around long before 300 years following Christ. Which versions of the bible are "corrupt" and "heavily changed?" Which are not? When I want a bridge built, I get an engineer, not a storyteller. When I want correct information about the bible and about Christian history and doctrine, I get a scholar, not a storyteller. You're not a scholar in this regard.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Islam is as much "man-made" as Christianity. Ask why the Shiites are always going up agains the Sunnis. The idea of the Trinity was around long before 300 years following Christ. Which versions of the bible are "corrupt" and "heavily changed?" Which are not? When I want a bridge built, I get an engineer, not a storyteller. When I want correct information about the bible and about Christian history and doctrine, I get a scholar, not a storyteller. You're not a scholar in this regard.

The ancient manuscripts support Bible canon. So, Bible translations can be compared with the manuscripts.
The '66' Bible books which make up Bible canon have corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages showing the internal harmony among its many writers.
The apocryphal books or writings simply exclude themselves being out of harmony with the ' 66' .

First-century teachings of Christ have No triad or trinity. That came when the apostasy set in 'after' the end of the first century - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30; 2 Timothy 4:3
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The ancient manuscripts support Bible canon. So, Bible translations can be compared with the manuscripts.
The '66' Bible books which make up Bible canon have corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages showing the internal harmony among its many writers.
The apocryphal books or writings simply exclude themselves being out of harmony with the ' 66' .

First-century teachings of Christ have No triad or trinity. That came when the apostasy set in 'after' the end of the first century - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30; 2 Timothy 4:3
The ancient manuscripts are much newer than the origins, themselves. The translations agree with the manuscripts because the translations are translations of those manuscripts. But the manuscripts themselves are copies -- or paraphrases -- or expansions -- on the source material, which was overwhelmingly exclusively oral for hundreds of years before being written down.

The biblical canon is varied and, in some cases is much larger than 66 books. Ask the Ethiopian Church.

Mark, Matthew and Luke are all decidedly 1st century -- and prior to the fabled "apostasy." They all infer The Trinity, even if they don't explicitly refer to it, specifically because Jesus is resurrected. Nothing that isn't Divine can be resurrected in the biblical view. Since Jesus is resurrected, it is inferred that Jesus is Divine.
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
Islam is as much "man-made" as Christianity. Ask why the Shiites are always going up agains the Sunnis. The idea of the Trinity was around long before 300 years following Christ. Which versions of the bible are "corrupt" and "heavily changed?" Which are not? When I want a bridge built, I get an engineer, not a storyteller. When I want correct information about the bible and about Christian history and doctrine, I get a scholar, not a storyteller. You're not a scholar in this regard.

Prove it.

All of them are corrupted, according to most Christians in fact.

Also, what does the shia/sunni conflict have to do with the doctrines of Islam? When and where was the Quran changed? Also, what does that have to do with this thread?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Prove it.

All of them are corrupted, according to most Christians in fact.

Also, what does the shia/sunni conflict have to do with the doctrines of Islam? When and where was the Quran changed? Also, what does that have to do with this thread?
The three Persons are mentioned in much earlier sources -- and mentioned as being in relationship with one another.

1) "Most Christians" aren't bible scholars. 2) "Corrupted" from ... what source?

It goes to show that there is great disagreement within your own religion -- all of which can be traced back to differences of religious opinion. All religions are "man-made." Unless you subscribe to the ridiculous belief that the Koran fell out of the sky. Religion -- according to anthropology -- is part and parcel of human creativity.

You have yet to disclose which versions of the bible are "heavily changed."

***Besides that, this is a "Christians only" debate.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As mentioned by sojourner This is a Christianity debate, however I do welcome the input from Tomorrows_Child as I do believe that his questions and opinions are relevant to the discussion. I do wish we could keep it civil and not insult each others religion though. If moderators feel it necessary to move this thread to a general Abrahamic religious section that would be fine with me. I am interested in all opinions..respectfully.
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
The three Persons are mentioned in much earlier sources -- and mentioned as being in relationship with one another.

1) "Most Christians" aren't bible scholars. 2) "Corrupted" from ... what source?

It goes to show that there is great disagreement within your own religion -- all of which can be traced back to differences of religious opinion. All religions are "man-made." Unless you subscribe to the ridiculous belief that the Koran fell out of the sky. Religion -- according to anthropology -- is part and parcel of human creativity.

You have yet to disclose which versions of the bible are "heavily changed."

***Besides that, this is a "Christians only" debate.

There is no difference between shia and sunni on the central doctrine of Islam if one is to study the Quran and the sunnah. Yes, MAN can make those difference but in Islam, you find no differences in the Quran. Yet, in the holiest text of christianity, there are 50 different verisons in the english language alone.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
There is no difference between shia and sunni on the central doctrine of Islam if one is to study the Quran and the sunnah. Yes, MAN can make those difference but in Islam, you find no differences in the Quran. Yet, in the holiest text of christianity, there are 50 different verisons in the english language alone.
And very few of them differ to any significant extent. As you say, it's what different people make of the texts. The different versions recognize the fluid nature of language and culture, and attempt to preserve the message, so that that message makes sense to subsequent generations.
 

midopafo

Member
It seems to me anyway that the main point of contention between Christianity, Islam and Judaism ( and to be fair, some types of Christianity) is the Concept of the Trinity. I would like to see an explanation for the Trinity that does not look like it is teaching more than one God.


No I wouldn't.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
It seems to me anyway that the main point of contention between Christianity, Islam and Judaism ( and to be fair, some types of Christianity) is the Concept of the Trinity. I would like to see an explanation for the Trinity that does not look like it is teaching more than one God.

I don't explain the trinity. There is no need to, as there isn't technically any ''three' separate aspects of God, in my beliefs.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
It seems to me anyway that the main point of contention between Christianity, Islam and Judaism ( and to be fair, some types of Christianity) is the Concept of the Trinity. I would like to see an explanation for the Trinity that does not look like it is teaching more than one God.

Read the New Testament or reread it.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Read the New Testament or reread it.

Yes, in rereading Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 it still says the pre-human Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
God is uncreated and from everlasting ( No beginning ) Psalms 90:2
So, Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Jesus was firstborn of every creation - Colossians 1:15
That is why Jesus could teach God is greater than everyone - John 10:29 A; John 14:28
Gospel writer John also wrote that No man has seen God at anytime - John 1:18 - people saw Jesus - 1 John 4:12
People saw Jesus and lived - Exodus 33:20
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes, in rereading Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 it still says the pre-human Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
God is uncreated and from everlasting ( No beginning ) Psalms 90:2
So, Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Jesus was firstborn of every creation - Colossians 1:15
That is why Jesus could teach God is greater than everyone - John 10:29 A; John 14:28
Gospel writer John also wrote that No man has seen God at anytime - John 1:18 - people saw Jesus - 1 John 4:12
People saw Jesus and lived - Exodus 33:20

Appreciate the input. :)
 
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