And yet the poor fellow gets a drubbing whenever he is mentioned.
Not by everybody, Deeje, but by me? Yeah!
I can answer your post properly now. Have computer.
What if he was "a chosen vessel" to Jesus, because of his background and his dedication to God, (though misdirected) rounding up those Christians and throwing them into prison as he actively championed Pharisaic Judaism, standing aloof when Stephen was stoned to death, approving of the whole show?
What if he was not chosen, but had figured out a way of controlling the whole World through fear, fear worse than the fear of a three day death on the cross, for instance? Paul's fear was for ever, and of intolerable burning endless pain. Quite clever, really.
What reason could he have had to turn around and become the brunt of what he had dished out to others? He was a proud Pharisee whose life changed completely. The fact that the other apostles, (though cautious at first because of Saul's reputation) accepted him as a fellow servant of God and used by Jesus in settings where the other apostles would have had no credibility, demonstrates to me that criticism of Paul is unfounded.
Pharisee? Interestingly the word 'Pharisee' is not mentioned once from Acts onwards.
Paul was a Levite, sure, or he would not have been contracted to put down errant Jews and Jesus factions.
I reckon that he bigged himself up in those letters, you know.
As I mentioned before, the apostles were led by holy spirit and if Paul had been a fraud, they would have known about it. After all, they were warned about Ananias and Sapphira withholding money from the sale of their land, but claiming to have donated it all.....God struck them down. (Acts 5:1-11) Wouldn't this have been way more serious?
I thought the disciples/apostles were led by God, actually.
If you believe in God and the Holy Ghost then you're past half way to the Trinity. *shudders*
John was a 2nd century apostle, living on the penitentuary island of Patmos, and Irreneaus (spelling?) was proud to have met him.
Jesus was Jewish...there was no ordination of women in Judaism. The priesthood was exclusively male.
Jesus was a Jew under Jewish Law until the night of his last Passover when he inaugurated a new covenant with his apostles. Christianity then gradually withdrew from corrupted Judaism to become what others viewed as a Jewish sect.
Yes, a Jewish sect, until Paul manipulated it in to a control religion fit for the Roman Empire.
Look, the cultures of the Jews and Roman Catholics were somewhat estranged where I live over the last 500 years, and if Jesus didn't knock it, and if gender emancipation demands it, then I'm all for Female Ordination, not because I'm a Christian but because I have so much respect for the provisions of the Equality Act 2010. We've been moving forward ever since women got the vote and no point in putting any brakes on now.
There is nothing in Christianity that speaks of "Christian" priests on earth. Their priesthood was to be served in heaven where gender does not exist. Men and women were anointed or ordained for that priesthood as Paul clearly stated.
Galatians 3:24-29...
"So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian.
26 You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise."
I cannot think of a Christian faith or church that does not have leaders. They just have different names.
There are Padres, Pastors, Vicars, Deans, Bishops, Canon, Ministers and more. The Salvation Army has Leutinents, Captains, Majors and Colonels etc You have levels of Elders.
One did not need to be "Jewish" in the flesh to qualify for selection in this priesthood.....nor did they need to be males...they just needed to be disciples (students) of Jesus and imitate his love.
But as long as the Christians gathered on earth, men and women knew their assigned roles and did not compete for them.
Until now............
Whatever any "church" decides to do will be judged by God, not by me.
SSM finds no support in scripture at all since the God ordained marriage arrangement was between a man and a woman, as Jesus said. (Matthew 19:4-6) It was not just a physical union but a spiritual one designed by God to create families to "fill the earth" as he had mandated.
Oh that has been done! Danger levels of mankind on Earth.
This need for reproduction has reduced somewhat.
You can't do that with SS couples unless you break God's moral laws. There was simply no provision for SS marriage in the Biblical definition.
We have gay members of our congregations who are happy to live celibate lives until the new world. They love God more than their own flesh.
Moral laws? They were laws for safety, strength and survival. Back then reproduction was needed urgently whilst health safety was vital too.
Men could take in virgin strangers to have.... how do you feel about that 'moral' law? There were no moral laws. Do you think the law about erecting protective walls around roofs was a '#moral' law? No, but it was a safety/strength law.
In original Christianity, no one needed a degree in anything but love for God and neighbor. The only education they needed was in the scriptures and from the teachings of Jesus Christ. Those in leadership positions were to have spiritual qualifications, not educational doctorates and degrees in Theology. That is "Church"ianity, not "Christ"ianity.
That WAS a degree.
Why did Jesus choose uneducated men to be his apostles? Because the Rabbinical Schools that educated the Jews were not teaching them according to God's law, but more from oral traditions that Jesus condemned.
Christendom's seminaries and Theological Colleges do the same. Most 'clergy' are schooled in theology but are often woefully ignorant of the Bible.
All the peasant classes were uneducated' other than in their trades and crafts. Fishermen like Zebedee were very highly skilled and clever people, after all he employed nearly half of the disciples.
Of course the church did not educate its followers! How could it control them if they had bibles and could read them? The church wanted sheep.
Why weren't Jesus' beloved female friends part of his chosen group of apostles, selected after a whole night in prayer to his Father? Because they were the support crew who helped out where they were needed. Its why a car has only one steering wheel and set of controls...imagine if there were two sets, with both drivers competing for control...
That is a recipe for conflict.
How can a car with twin steering be any kind of comparison as a reason for not having women followers? Jesus had women followers alright! I'd remind you that the only witnesses to Jesus's execution were women followers, as described in G-Mark.
I have been researching and studying the Bible for the past 47 years and I cannot say the same at all.
Paul receives a bad wrap because he was so very different to the other apostles....but it was that difference that made his ministry so valuable. His education allowed him to defend himself him before Kings and governors...his Roman Citizenship was also used to advance his ministry.
Paul built the Church. Christianity is Pauline.
Disciples like Cephas were very much at odds with such as him. I think G-Mark is a collection of his memoirs, written to offer the real story.... no wonder its so different from Paul's ideas.
I cannot see what he did that was in any way a contradiction of what Jesus taught. You cannot state categorically that Jesus did not choose him for a special ministry on the road to Damascus that day, when he was on his way to persecute more Christians.
I can! Jesus never knew Paul.
Of course I can say it.
Other Pharisees were afraid of making their interest in Jesus public for fear of reprisals.The presiding ones were a very proud and obstinate mob according to Jesus, so how could a very prideful Saul of Tarsus, whose persecution of the Christians had become widely known, suddenly turn full circle and become Paul, the beloved apostle of Christ?...a champion now for the opposition?
Priests.
Many Pharisees were not Levites.
The Priests ran the Temple merry-go-round.
Jesus and the Baptist were ranged against the Priests.
If choosing the apostle Paul was also 'what Jesus' did then showing hostility and disrespect for him and his ministry is not the way to show appreciation for them.....is it?
I don't think Jesus did choose him so I'm innocent of the above.
I don't see that Paul put any spin on anything. Like Jesus he was a devout Jew and likely to lean towards the principles of the Law,.........................
Paul agreed a contract to do work for the Sanhedrin. He reneged on it and cleared off, doing something else.
And he changed the face of the mission in to Christianity'.
'orrible.
If the Bible is the inspired word of God then don't you think that One with the power to create the Universe could take care of what is contained in his own instruction manual? If Paul is the fraud you think he is, then God is a failure who had no control over the contents of the Bible and we shouldn't believe a word in it.
I don't believe that the bible is the inspired word of God, but it IS a brilliant historical document which pagan students like me can take interest in.
Conversely, if all that the Bible contains IS the word of God, then we must accept all of it as coming from him. You can't pick and choose because you have no real idea about the authenticity of any of it.....you weren't there and neither was I...so its all about faith I guess.....based on my own study and research, I have truckloads of the stuff...
I have picked and chosen, and the gospels were my choice for study. Those and the archaeology, other early 1st century documents, farming trends, lifestyles etc of the Northern Eastern Aramaic speaking Jews.
And Jesus never knew that name..... it's a mash of Greek and Roman!
I did it! I actually got thru a Deeje post without cutting it too much! I shall eat my dinner with feelings of accomplishment, even if I won't get to any heaven.
