1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christians: most relevent member of the trinity?

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Eddi, Jan 11, 2021.

?
  1. God The Father

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Jesus Christ

    40.0%
  3. The Holy Spirit

    20.0%
  4. They are all equally relevant

    20.0%
  5. The question makes no sense to me - (please explain)

    20.0%
  1. Eddi

    Eddi reformed crackpot

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,455
    Ratings:
    +1,860
    Religion:
    Progressive Christianity
    This is in same-faith debates so Christians only please!

    I know that doctrine holds that all three are all co-equal in status and that is not something I want to challenge

    However, I think some members are more relevant than others

    This isn't about who is the greatest or most important, but about who is the most relevent

    I believe that Jesus Christ is the most relevant member of the Holy Trinity

    And that following him, the second most relevant member is The Holy Spirit

    And therefore the least relevant member is God The Father

    Why do I believe this?

    Well, I believe Jesus died for our sins and through him alone is it possible to be Justified, Sanctified, and Glorified

    I believe that he created the world too, which is something that is often overlooked

    Also, I believe that it is Jesus who will judge each and every one of us when the time comes

    And the Holy Spirit is the means through which God illuminates and acts upon individuals

    What does God The Father actually do???

    I get that he is the parental side of the Godhead but I can't help thinking that he seems the least relevant part of it

    And I get that in the Old Testament it was God The Father who interacted with humankind and made covenants, etc. but to me that is a different dispensation, that was then - I'm talking about what he does now, now that Jesus has performed his ministry and ascended up to Heaven to be seated alongside The Father and is waiting to return?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    13,632
    Ratings:
    +4,993
    Religion:
    Pelagianism
    We are called Christians because of Jesus Christ.
    But not because He is the most relevant Person of the Trinity but because He was human. Besides being God.
    He lived the human dimension, which makes sense to us. So we knew Him. And we know Hin.
    God and the Holy Spirit are mysteries we humans cannot understand...fully. I guess.
    Inmho.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,757
    Ratings:
    +505
    Religion:
    Christian
    In order for you to be a Christian, you have to believe that Jesus was a person... and lives still today.
    If you deny this, I won't say you're a Christian.
    Christianity is entitled to say which religions do not belong to them.
    So let me put it this way: without Jesus - no Christianity.

    If you only believe in God, could very well be you're are a New Ager or a theist or a deist or a pantheist.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    31,057
    Ratings:
    +11,845
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    The Holy Spirit, because it goes wherever it wills. Theoretically its like wind, because you don't know where its coming from, where its going, nor who has and hasn't got it. This is one of those defining areas where Jesus departs in his teaching from most people. Most people tend to feel that wisdom must be passed on from teacher to student. It just seems like common sense. Even churches tend to go away from this and teach things like "Top down" authority or "Top down" revelation or to rely upon various seminary and discipleship ordination schemes. Most people outright reject the concept as I understand Jesus to have described it to Nicodemus.

    Look at the Didache. Doesn't this seem to contradict Jesus idea about the holy spirit going where it will? It does to me. They require all sorts of commitments and learning before they'll baptize anyone in the Didache.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,757
    Ratings:
    +505
    Religion:
    Christian
    The Holy Spirit is not limited to Christianity, as I see it.
    See Balaam, for instance. He was a true prophet, yet didn't belong to Israel.
    Also, the Holy Spirit spoke to people before Jesus even came to earth, this is at least my interpretation of the story of Nebuchadnezzar, again a Non-Israelite who was addressed.

    I'm not saying that the Holy Spirit is less important.
    Just want to mention that it sometimes is not indicative of or limited to Christians.

    From all I know, spiritualists also know the Holy Ghost, yet they aren't Christians often.
    Even here on RF, a member keeps claiming to have had experiences of higher conciousness which I do not deny, and believes in God. Yet he does not acknowledge that Jesus Christ still lives, today.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    31,057
    Ratings:
    +11,845
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    You mention a lot of curious things. It is like a puzzle, and Jesus isn't merely saying that the spirit goes where it wills in John 3 but is speaking of being birthed by the spirit which is a difficult thing to accept. This could connect it with that spirit of adoption mentioned by Paul and that anointing which we call Christ. The definition of what a Christian 'Is' remains something people contend over. It is very troublesome, because some are faithful, efficient, mature and some are winter crickets who show up with nothing and don't seem to mature ever. Some are blatantly ignorant, and so it is natural to ask how they can be family. Our tendency is to put obstacles before them, to make sure they are committed and are willing to pull their own weight.

    Nebuchadnezzar's vision is an early window in to the symbol of the rock that Jesus mentions. Without background its strange that he seems to randomly talk about rocks. "Thou art Peter and upon this rock" what rock? Its a rock made without hands, but is that rock a man or is it that the Father directly reveals to him by the holy spirit. So maybe the rock which the builders reject is this idea that the holy spirit goes where it wills.
     
  7. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,060
    Ratings:
    +284
    Religion:
    Disciple
    Jesus isn't the second person of the indivisible Trinity. Jesus never claimed to be the second person of the Trinity. That speculation began after Jesus returned to heaven.

    Jesus is a Son OF the Trinity, a creation OF the Trinity.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2021
    Messages:
    333
    Ratings:
    +42
    Religion:
    Christian (Baptist)
    There are a number of issues here.
    I have the understanding that the Son did all those things on behalf of the Father. Ref: John 1:2-3. John 1:18 KJV, NKJV. Compare Mark 13:32 with explanation Acts 1:7. This in that they are distinct Persons.

    It is my understanding as God, God the Father, Son of God and Holy Spirit being one and the same God, there is no subordination in this they being very same God.
     
Loading...