Christians: most relevent member of the trinity?

[Eddi]

This is in same-faith debates so Christians only please!

I know that doctrine holds that all three are all co-equal in status and that is not something I want to challenge

However, I think some members are more relevant than others

This isn't about who is the greatest or most important, but about who is the most relevent

I believe that Jesus Christ is the most relevant member of the Holy Trinity

And that following him, the second most relevant member is The Holy Spirit

And therefore the least relevant member is God The Father

Why do I believe this?

Well, I believe Jesus died for our sins and through him alone is it possible to be Justified, Sanctified, and Glorified

I believe that he created the world too, which is something that is often overlooked

Also, I believe that it is Jesus who will judge each and every one of us when the time comes

And the Holy Spirit is the means through which God illuminates and acts upon individuals

What does God The Father actually do???

I get that he is the parental side of the Godhead but I can't help thinking that he seems the least relevant part of it

And I get that in the Old Testament it was God The Father who interacted with humankind and made covenants, etc. but to me that is a different dispensation, that was then - I'm talking about what he does now, now that Jesus has performed his ministry and ascended up to Heaven to be seated alongside The Father and is waiting to return?

 

[Estro Felino]

We are called Christians because of Jesus Christ.
But not because He is the most relevant Person of the Trinity but because He was human. Besides being God.
He lived the human dimension, which makes sense to us. So we knew Him. And we know Hin.
God and the Holy Spirit are mysteries we humans cannot understand...fully. I guess.
Inmho.

 

[thomas t]

In order for you to be a Christian, you have to believe that Jesus was a person... and lives still today.
If you deny this, I won't say you're a Christian.
Christianity is entitled to say which religions do not belong to them.
So let me put it this way: without Jesus - no Christianity.

If you only believe in God, could very well be you're are a New Ager or a theist or a deist or a pantheist.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The Holy Spirit, because it goes wherever it wills. Theoretically its like wind, because you don't know where its coming from, where its going, nor who has and hasn't got it. This is one of those defining areas where Jesus departs in his teaching from most people. Most people tend to feel that wisdom must be passed on from teacher to student. It just seems like common sense. Even churches tend to go away from this and teach things like "Top down" authority or "Top down" revelation or to rely upon various seminary and discipleship ordination schemes. Most people outright reject the concept as I understand Jesus to have described it to Nicodemus.

Look at the Didache. Doesn't this seem to contradict Jesus idea about the holy spirit going where it will? It does to me. They require all sorts of commitments and learning before they'll baptize anyone in the Didache.

 

[thomas t]

The Holy Spirit, because it goes wherever it wills. Theoretically its like wind, because you don't know where its coming from, where its going, nor who has and hasn't got it. This is one of those defining areas where Jesus departs in his teaching from most people. Most people tend to feel that wisdom must be passed on from teacher to student. It just seems like common sense. Even churches tend to go away from this and teach things like "Top down" authority or "Top down" revelation or to rely upon various seminary and discipleship ordination schemes. Most people outright reject the concept as I understand Jesus to have described it to Nicodemus.

Look at the Didache. Doesn't this seem to contradict Jesus idea about the holy spirit going where it will? It does to me. They require all sorts of commitments and learning before they'll baptize anyone in the Didache.

The Holy Spirit is not limited to Christianity, as I see it.
See Balaam, for instance. He was a true prophet, yet didn't belong to Israel.
Also, the Holy Spirit spoke to people before Jesus even came to earth, this is at least my interpretation of the story of Nebuchadnezzar, again a Non-Israelite who was addressed.

I'm not saying that the Holy Spirit is less important.
Just want to mention that it sometimes is not indicative of or limited to Christians.

From all I know, spiritualists also know the Holy Ghost, yet they aren't Christians often.
Even here on RF, a member keeps claiming to have had experiences of higher conciousness which I do not deny, and believes in God. Yet he does not acknowledge that Jesus Christ still lives, today.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The Holy Spirit is not limited to Christianity, as I see it.
See Balaam, for instance. He was a true prophet, yet didn't belong to Israel.
Also, the Holy Spirit spoke to people before Jesus even came to earth, this is at least my interpretation of the story of Nebuchadnezzar, again a Non-Israelite who was addressed.

I'm not saying that the Holy Spirit is less important.
Just want to mention that it sometimes is not indicative of or limited to Christians.

From all I know, spiritualists also know the Holy Ghost, yet they aren't Christians often.
Even here on RF, a member keeps claiming to have had experiences of higher conciousness which I do not deny, and believes in God. Yet he does not acknowledge that Jesus Christ still lives, today.

You mention a lot of curious things. It is like a puzzle, and Jesus isn't merely saying that the spirit goes where it wills in John 3 but is speaking of being birthed by the spirit which is a difficult thing to accept. This could connect it with that spirit of adoption mentioned by Paul and that anointing which we call Christ. The definition of what a Christian 'Is' remains something people contend over. It is very troublesome, because some are faithful, efficient, mature and some are winter crickets who show up with nothing and don't seem to mature ever. Some are blatantly ignorant, and so it is natural to ask how they can be family. Our tendency is to put obstacles before them, to make sure they are committed and are willing to pull their own weight.

Nebuchadnezzar's vision is an early window in to the symbol of the rock that Jesus mentions. Without background its strange that he seems to randomly talk about rocks. "Thou art Peter and upon this rock" what rock? Its a rock made without hands, but is that rock a man or is it that the Father directly reveals to him by the holy spirit. So maybe the rock which the builders reject is this idea that the holy spirit goes where it wills.

 

[Colt]

Jesus isn't the second person of the indivisible Trinity. Jesus never claimed to be the second person of the Trinity. That speculation began after Jesus returned to heaven.

Jesus is a Son OF the Trinity, a creation OF the Trinity.

 

[37818]

And I get that in the Old Testament it was God The Father who interacted with humankind and made covenants, etc. but to me that is a different dispensation, that was then - I'm talking about what he does now, now that Jesus has performed his ministry and ascended up to Heaven to be seated alongside The Father and is waiting to return?

There are a number of issues here.

And I get that in the Old Testament it was God The Father who interacted with humankind and made covenants, etc. but . . .

I have the understanding that the Son did all those things on behalf of the Father. Ref: John 1:2-3. John 1:18 KJV, NKJV. Compare Mark 13:32 with explanation Acts 1:7. This in that they are distinct Persons.

It is my understanding as God, God the Father, Son of God and Holy Spirit being one and the same God, there is no subordination in this they being very same God.