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Christians - Mark 26:34
- Thread starter Aqualung
- Start date
Hey, I'm not very clearly versed on Mormon doctrine, but the Bible speaks very clearly that God is the beginning and the end of all things. He is the great I AM. He is allmighty, all-powerful, all-knowing. All things in this world and the worlds to come were created by him.Aqualung said:
If the Bible is true, he cannot be bound by the laws he created.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Jesus knew Peter far better than Peter knew himself and I think their relationship was AWESOME. First you have to understand Peter: he was impetuous, brash and a coward. He worried how others perceived him. If you modernise his name, we would call him "Rock Johnson" today. Who else had the temerity to rebuke our Lord? 
Check this out:
Matthew 16:21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!" 23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." NIV
Jesus knew just how Peter would respond to the stress of the scourge. He knew it not only as a Friend but as God. He IS wiser than all of us combined. Let's take a look at
Luke 22:31 "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."
33 But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death." 34 Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me." NIV
The man had an unrealistic view of his faith: something that is true about most of us!
But of course, the best part of this segment of Peter's life is the resolution that takes place in the last chapter of John.
Check this out:Matthew 16:21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!" 23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." NIV
Jesus knew just how Peter would respond to the stress of the scourge. He knew it not only as a Friend but as God. He IS wiser than all of us combined. Let's take a look at
Luke 22:31 "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."
33 But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death." 34 Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me." NIV
The man had an unrealistic view of his faith: something that is true about most of us!
But of course, the best part of this segment of Peter's life is the resolution that takes place in the last chapter of John.
Ok, I just didn't want to offend you if I said something against your faith. Yes, I know the laws are outside this world, in space, throughout the universe and so on. But God does not exist in a physical realm. He is in the spiritual realm. In the realm of God there are no physical laws (laws of physics). Is your spiritual man bound by the laws of physics? I know mine is not. Is it possible for a man to be ressurected from the dead after three days? No, not according to science and physics. But you believe it. Somewhere in your soul or spirit you believe deep down that God raised Jesus from the dead. So you must believe in the spiritual realm.Aqualung said:
If you do, please enlighten me. I don't believe that we have even figured out how the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids. There are many things that are physical in our world that in all our knowledge we don't understand. So, I don't think anybody has a perfected knowledge of physical laws.Aqualung said:
All I am trying to say through all of this is, I believe that God does not exist physically in our world, dimension, whatever. I believe the Bible teaches that he is spiritual in nature and that he created all things and is therefore not controlled by the laws he created. If he is controlled by something, he is not all-powerfull. And if we don't believe that, we might as well jump on the bandwagon with everybody else that don't believe in God. If he is not the God of the Bible then we don't have anything to base our faith on. Because if he's not who he says he is, our whole faith is in vain.
SoyLeche
meh...
If you have access to James E. Talmage's "Jesus the Christ" -- there is a footnote at the end of one of the chapters that addresses the question you posed, not specifically about Peter, but about God's foreknowledge in general. Sorry I can't be more specific about that one.
Also, check out C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". He explains things in such a way that I can start to understand them. I don't agree with everything he says (mostly about the Trinity), but he offers some great insight. The chapter I'm thinking about specifically is the one about Time.
Also, check out C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". He explains things in such a way that I can start to understand them. I don't agree with everything he says (mostly about the Trinity), but he offers some great insight. The chapter I'm thinking about specifically is the one about Time.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Your choices exclude the possibility that the author of Matthew's Gospel wrote from hindsight. The events had already occured, and the author could have put the words into the mouth of Jesus.Aqualung said:Sorry! I meant matthew, not mark.
"Before the cock crows, thou shalt deny me thrice."
How could Jesus have known this, granted that:
A) He gave us free will, and therefore Peter could have chosen not to deny.
B) God will not tempt us past our ability to withstand.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
I have been working on this one with No*s for several years. Basically, I think that God knows all that there is to know. Therefore, he knows the possibility of every outcome for every situation - the end result of every choice and how it could possibly affect every thing else in the world as our choices affect others. From this perspective, God can see the future by knowing the outcome of every possible choice, but the actual choice is unknowable before it occurs.Aqualung said:
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
But given that God is eternal and outside of time, there really is no such thing as 'before it occurs' from His point of view. Someone suggesting then, that God's knowing the actions we will make means we have no free will is rather like me saying that because I know Hitler shot himself I caused him to do so.angellous_evangellous said:
James
Aqualung
Tasty
I don't have that perfected knowledge. God does. Therefore, when he does thing that seem miraculous, he is really just operating under those same laws that you and I operate under. But with a better understanding of those laws, he can do a lot cooler stuff.Dentonz said:
And all I'm trying to say is I believe he does.Dentonz said:
I think people tend to misunderstand what "all-powerful" means. I see it more as meaning "being able to do everything that it is possible to do," and not "being able to do the impossible." It's not possible (in my beliefs) for God to step outside of the laws of nature.Dentonz said:
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Frubals then. We need to keep this idea strong!:jam:Aqualung said:
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
I agree without doubt that God exists outside of time and nature, but He interacts with nature in a very special way. My reasoning has a critical metaphor. Being all-powerful, God can do all things that are possible to do. However, it is widely accepted by theologians that God cannot make a square circle, or a triangle with four sides. God cannot make a God more powerful than Himself. In order for us to have freewill, which is something that the fathers asserted, God cannot know the outcome of a choice before it is made.JamesThePersian said: