christians - judging

[Scuba Pete]

My friend NetDoc, To apply what the Lord said in the verse above,wouldn't I have to apply this verse first?---> Judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) to even know which I should or should not eat with or even be around socially? I must make a judgement to tell who I can be around. To do that I would use the mind of God (Phil.2:5). The Judgement I made would be based upon the word of God, not mine. That would mean God made the Judgement ,not me. Baerly

Why take this verse OUT of context?

John 7:21 Jesus said to them, "I did one miracle, and you are all astonished. 22 Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a child on the Sabbath. 23 Now if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath? 24 Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." NIV

I suspect that you are judging by mere appearances. It's easy to do, but you can do better.

Philippians 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. NIV

I would dare say that IF you had the same attitude as Jesus (not self-righteous) that you would have the SAME attitude of Paul:

I Timothy 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. NIV

Nah, none of these passages tell us to condemn our fellow man. Sure, we can inspect fruit, and so we should. Your heart will judge you on the final day. God will let you decide if you want to be with him... or not. I am just thankful that God has unlimited patience for me: the worst sinner on the planet today.

 

[Baerly]

Why take this verse OUT of context?

John 7:21 Jesus said to them, "I did one miracle, and you are all astonished. 22 Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a child on the Sabbath. 23 Now if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath? 24 Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." NIV

My friend, Please tell me how I am supposed to make a RIGHT JUDGMENT?

I suspect that you are judging by mere appearances. It's easy to do, but you can do better.

Is it just me or did you just judge me? I thought we were not supposed to do such?

Philippians 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. NIV

I would dare say that IF you had the same attitude as Jesus (not self-righteous) that you would have the SAME attitude of Paul:

I think you just judged me again. Didn't you tell me we were not supposed to do that? I think your getting the hang of it !!!

I Timothy 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. NIV

Nah, none of these passages tell us to condemn our fellow man. Sure, we can inspect fruit, and so we should. Your heart will judge you on the final day. God will let you decide if you want to be with him... or not. I am just thankful that God has unlimited patience for me: the worst sinner on the planet today.

My friend, it will be the N.T.Law that I will be judged by, not my heart according to (John 12:48). God will look at my actions (VS) what he N.T.Law commanded me to do according to (2Cor.5:10) (Rom.14:12) (Rev.20:12) (Rev.14:13)Thanks for all the _______. in love Baerly

missionprinting.us has alot of good bible info for anyone who is interested. Baerly

 

[Scuba Pete]

"With the judgement you use, you too will be judged!"

Translation: if you condemn, you will be condemned.

It's really your choice. You haven't presented a single scripture that contradicts our Lord's command to not judge.

 

[Baerly]

"With the judgement you use, you too will be judged!"

Translation: if you condemn, you will be condemned.

It's really your choice. You haven't presented a single scripture that contradicts our Lord's command to not judge.

My friend,The judgement I use is the standard of the bible (N.T.LAW). It is also called the Mind of Christ (Phil.2:5).

If I use it (N.T.LAW) to make a judgment upon others,wouldn't it make sense that same N.T.LAW will judge me also.It is the standard which everyone will be judged by (John 12:48). i think this is a good interpretation of the above passage you used. Any other standard really means nothing because it would not be the standard God will use in the end (Judgment Day) (John 12:48).

My friend what I speak is the Gods truth (John 17:17),you can deny it all you want,but one day you will meet up with this standard (N.T.LAW).

I do not have to convince you to be speaking truth. Jesus spoke truth and many rejected him and his words (Luke 7:30). Those same people will meet up with those very words of Jesus on the day of Judgment (John 12:48 ; 18:37).

Sincere hearts mean nothing without listening and following Jesus (John 10:27). Josephs father thought his son was dead.But it was predicated upon false information Josephs brother gave his father. WE must make sure our emotions are based upon truth (John 17:17) (1Cor.3:11). We learn in the story of Joseph that even family members can and will lie to us to protect their own feelings and hides. It is up to us to search the scriptures to see if those things be so (John 5:39) (Acts 17:11).

 

[Scuba Pete]

Again... feel free to judge as you see fit. Just remember that if you condemn, you will be condemned. Calling me a friend and condemning me at the same time is called hypocrisy.

Maybe you can edit your Bible to read: "For God so love the whole world that he sent his son to condemn them".

As for me? I will listen to Jesus and not judge.

 

[Baerly]

Again... feel free to judge as you see fit. Just remember that if you condemn, you will be condemned. Calling me a friend and condemning me at the same time is called hypocrisy.

I think you just judged me again.

Who is the hypocrite here?

I truly do think your getting the hang of this judging thing. What an example!!!

I do consider you a friend.

Maybe you can edit your Bible to read: "For God so love the whole world that he sent his son to condemn them".

As for me? I will listen to Jesus and not judge.

Judge righteous Judgment (John 7:24). That is what Jesus commanded (1Cor.14:37). I did not make this stuff up. If you refuse to make a judgment your rejecting the word of God (John 14:15,21 ; 15:10,14).

(John 7:24) Judge righteous judgment.

The things I write to you are the commandments of he Lord (1Cor.14:37).


He that is spiritual judgeth all things... (1Cor.2:16).

When we reject the word of God we even judge ourselves according to (Acts 13:46).

Lydia told faithful men of God "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord,come into my house and abide there...(Acts 16:15).

People we need to learn more about what is in our bibles. It is possible our kinfolks could be telling us things that are incorrect about the word of God.That is what happened to Josephs father.Just a thought. Baerly

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, but, ya know, you really shouldn't try to pick the speck of sawdust out of my eye until you've dealt with the forest in your own eye. Translation: None of us is fit to judge others. If we do judge, we should be more concerned about our own foibles, than in the hijinks of others.

 

[Sonic247]

We just basically don't judge any one, but the word of God does judge and since we know what it says we can warn people for their own good. And of course "all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable", but I think sharing the Gospel is the most important, because once a person has the Holy Spirit it will lead them into all truth. But if we judge people for sin we condemn ourselves because we are also sinful. The Spirit though "Judges all things" and the word of God is "the sword of the Spirit", but the flesh judges unrighteously, in ourselves there is a constant battle between the Spirit and the flesh. We can definately judge actions based on the word of God, but as far as people go, (and I'm talking practically now) God has seen every detail of their life inside and out, but we judge the surface and in the present, but anyway if we see someone who isn't saved we can at least judge one thing: they are lost in sin just like we were, they need to be saved just like we have been.

 

[Sonic247]

I guess that is two things...........

 

[Baerly]

Yeah, but, ya know, you really shouldn't try to pick the speck of sawdust out of my eye until you've dealt with the forest in your own eye. Translation: None of us is fit to judge others. If we do judge, we should be more concerned about our own foibles, than in the hijinks of others.

My friend, Like most anytime when you give your thoughts on a particular scripture I disagree with you, but not only do I, but the very word of God which you just quoted disagrees with your interpretation of (Mt.7:1-5). Please notice (vs)5. says after you have taken care of your own eye problem,Then we are to go to our brother and cast the mote out of his eye. That requires us to judge what is the Law and what problem our brother has which is going against that New Testament Law.

(Gal.6:1,2) Is basically telling us to judge also. We must to do the commandments of the Lord. - in love Baerly

 

[Scuba Pete]

How sad... Jesus prophesied your coming:

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." NIV

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. NIV

As you put it... you want to teach the LAW. I want to teach life. I will obey Jesus in this and leave you to ignore his words.


I would suggest you look at the meaning of the Greek to see where you have erred. Hopefully that's not too much work and thought for you.

 

[sojourner]

My friend, Like most anytime when you give your thoughts on a particular scripture I disagree with you, but not only do I, but the very word of God which you just quoted disagrees with your interpretation of (Mt.7:1-5). Please notice (vs)5. says after you have taken care of your own eye problem,Then we are to go to our brother and cast the mote out of his eye. That requires us to judge what is the Law and what problem our brother has which is going against that New Testament Law.

(Gal.6:1,2) Is basically telling us to judge also. We must to do the commandments of the Lord. - in love Baerly

I don't believe you've succeeded in eradicating the log. I know I haven't eradicated mine... First things first, you know.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Yo So!

When he looks this way, remind to duck!

 

[Baerly]

How sad... Jesus prophesied your coming:

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." NIV

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. NIV

As you put it... you want to teach the LAW. I want to teach life. I will obey Jesus in this and leave you to ignore his words.


I would suggest you look at the meaning of the Greek to see where you have erred. Hopefully that's not too much work and thought for you.

I think you had to make a judgment about me to know whether I was in error or not.

What was that about doing as they say and not as they do?

 

[Scuba Pete]

You have to differentiate between the various types of judging.

1) Passing a judgement or a penalty. "You are going to hell for that lie!"

2) Discernment. Which is the BEST course of action?

3) Sorting. Good apple, bad apple.

Until you realise that you are playing with a semantically diverse term, you will keep making errors in how to apply the scriptures. I would imagine (but I have not looked) that there is more than greek word being translated as judgement. Just as more than one Greek word was translated into "love".

 

[Katzpur]

When any supposed Christian tells me I'm going to Hell, I'd call that judging. Obviously, each of us is responsible to make decisions based on what we judge to be right or wrong. We each need to choose the path we believe will lead us our desired destination. What we don't need to do is condemn other people when they choose a different path. God is perfectly capable of doing that without any help from us!

 

[sojourner]

When any supposed Christian tells me I'm going to Hell, I'd call that judging. Obviously, each of us is responsible to make decisions based on what we judge to be right or wrong. We each need to choose the path we believe will lead us our desired destination. What we don't need to do is condemn other people when they choose a different path. God is perfectly capable of doing that without any help from us!

Right on! Frubals!

 

[Baerly]

When any supposed Christian tells me I'm going to Hell, I'd call that judging. Obviously, each of us is responsible to make decisions based on what we judge to be right or wrong. We each need to choose the path we believe will lead us our desired destination. What we don't need to do is condemn other people when they choose a different path. God is perfectly capable of doing that without any help from us!

Wouldn't you agree that the word of God tells us to warn those in error. I find these verses which tell us to warn certain people they are on their way to hell if they do not repent (Gal.1:6-9) (Luke 13:3) (Luke 17:3,4) (Mt 18:15-17) (Rom.16:17) (2Thess.3:6,14) (1Cor.5:5). So it does matter which way we go. Not only that but the bible tells us that God uses Christians to preach to others and tell them the gospel,this would include the verses above.

God has set the plan of salvation in order (Titus 2:11,12). It is carried out by word of mouth. People telling others the word of God (Acts 11:14). God warns us through the bible how to worship and how to live as a Christian (1Thess.4:1).

 

[roli]

When any supposed Christian tells me I'm going to Hell, I'd call that judging. Obviously, each of us is responsible to make decisions based on what we judge to be right or wrong. We each need to choose the path we believe will lead us our desired destination. What we don't need to do is condemn other people when they choose a different path. God is perfectly capable of doing that without any help from us!

I agree, the holy spirit says Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove(or convict) the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
The holy spirit is already in the world convicting people of sin,but many hearts are hard and calloused

The conscience is also at work in the heart of man convicting of sin or transgression of God's law,we all have the law of God written upon our hearts
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

 

[sojourner]

Wouldn't you agree that the word of God tells us to warn those in error. I find these verses which tell us to warn certain people they are on their way to hell if they do not repent (Gal.1:6-9) (Luke 13:3) (Luke 17:3,4) (Mt 18:15-17) (Rom.16:17) (2Thess.3:6,14) (1Cor.5:5). So it does matter which way we go. Not only that but the bible tells us that God uses Christians to preach to others and tell them the gospel,this would include the verses above.

God has set the plan of salvation in order (Titus 2:11,12). It is carried out by word of mouth. People telling others the word of God (Acts 11:14). God warns us through the bible how to worship and how to live as a Christian (1Thess.4:1).

How do you know when someone is "in error?" Because the Bible, which you understand through your own lens, "says so?"