Truth in love
Well-Known Member
1. It is bearing false witness to say I said something I clearly did not say.
2. The numbers don't make it true or false.
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Christians: Is Sola Scriptura Biblical?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
1. It is bearing false witness to say I said something I clearly did not say.
2. The numbers don't make it true or false.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
I must conclude you are a bot as you don't actually address what I wrote.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
This is Truth.... God cannot lie!
Truth in love Jesus tells you in the scriptures.. He built his church on ROCK not on sand! God cannot lie!
Jesus tells you.. He is ALWAYS WITH his followers to the very end of Time/World! God cannot lie! IF.....
Truth in love if God lied he would not be perfect he would NOT be God! ALWAYS WITH means Jesus cannot be with your man made church because he did not start with your church!
You are forced (by your teachers) to believe God failed to build on ROCK.. They MUST teach you Jesus built on sand, that you NEED to Restore the Church of Jesus Christ.. AS IF....
Truth in love as if God needs man to come to his rescue and build what he failed to build! As if God lied!
You want to believe that: Satan had somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK the body of Jesus (His Church) from Jesus! FACT: This is the truth: Jesus did not start your church a Man did!
Founded by Eugene Oliver Walton (November 6, 1927 – May 28, 2010)!!!
Jesus remains ALWAYS WITH his Church he established 2000 years ago!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
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Truth in love I am NOT a bot!
I post scriptures.. The words of God!
You are forced to reject the words of God to believe what you have been taught! You are taught... God failed.. That his body fell and you need to >>Restore<< Jesus' body!
To believe this you MUST reject the scriptures! Catholic' believe the scriptures!
Truth in love So far ONLY the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church can make the claim this verse (below) is about them! The Church Jesus established is 2000 years old, the Catholic Church is Apostolic!
Daniel 2:44
“In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
Daniel 7:18
But the holy people of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.’
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but this is pointless you keep accusing me of nonsense for not agreeing with you. I'll stick to what is taught in the Bible.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
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Truth in love Okay.. Good idea.. stick to what is taught in the Bible...
What is taught in the bible.... ? Did Jesus build his Church on ROCK or on sand!?
Did the Church Jesus established stand or did it fall?
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Question please answer... Did Jesus get overpowered by the evil one and did he lose his body to the Anti-Christ? Scriptures pleas!
Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”
Matthew 28:20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you. “And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”
Did Jesus die for his Church?!
Does Jesus love his Church?
Is the Church Jesus established Holy!?
Is the Church Jesus established on ROCK; Without stain and Blameless!?
Is the Church that Jesus established his own Body and does Jesus Care for his Church?!
Are the people that belong to the ONLY Church Jesus established 2000 years ago members of Jesus' Body!
Scriptures...
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as **Christ loved the church and ** gave himself up for her 26 to ** make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, **but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but ** they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.
FACT: Jesus did NOT start your Church! Your church was started by a man!
Truth in love Your church is just One (1) or the over Thirty Thousand (30,000) churches that have been started by men!
Thousands of man made churches, all claim to have the ONLY TRUTH from the bible alone but NOT even two (2) of these thousands believe the same things!
All of these thousands of man made churches are trying to RE-form or RE-store the ONE Church Jesus established on ROCK!
FACT: Your church is not exceptional it's just one of the many thousands started by a man!
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
And more off topic in coherent stuff when you won’t answer the questions I asked???
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Hello again...
Truth in love You never answered any questions I Asked!
Your questions....
That the church organization ceased? Yes. I would never degrade the Lord by calling Him a fool or anything like that.
Do you believe we are in the last days/ end times?
Do you believe that Danial saw the Lord set up a kingdom in those times?
Do you believe in the falling away and restitution of ALL things taught in the Bible?
1 Do I believe we are in the last days/ end times? NO.... I believe we are closer to the last day then we were yesterday!
Matthew 24:36
The Day and Hour Unknown
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
2 Do you believe that Danial saw the Lord set up a kingdom in those times?
Jesus set up his kingdom before he left earth... The ONE Church he placed on ROCK is IN The Kingdom... FOREVER!
3..Do you believe in the falling away and restitution of ALL things taught in the Bible?
There is NO falling away in the bible.... Jesus is ALWAYS with his Body to the end of TIME! The Body of Jesus IS His One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church he established ON ROCK 2000 years ago!
Please answer My QUESTIONS...
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
As best I can recall most of your questions on my accepting your view on the church Christ set up.
I believe what He said not what you think it means.
The Bible clearly teaches of a falling away 2 thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
And restitution of ALL THINGS
Acts 3: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Therefore a church which was not restore is not the one authorized by Christ. It may teach and do many great things.
I will see if I can dig up any other questions you asked that I missed
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Questions you asked. (I think I found them all, if I missed one please ask again (as much as we may disagree I feel strongly about answering questions that are asked of me).
“Did Jesus die for his Church?” No, it was not so limited, He suffered and died far all of God’s children. This includes the Jew, Christian, Heathen etc.
Does Jesus love his Church? Yes I think this is very clear throughout the entire Bible.I'll not spend time citing references for this.
Is the Church Jesus established Holy!? Yes.
Is the Church Jesus established on ROCK; Without stain and Blameless!? Yes
Is the Church that Jesus established his own Body and does Jesus Care for his Church?! Not literally his body, it’s a metaphor. He as his body.
Did Jesus build his Church on ROCK or on sand!? Rock. It was rock, the rock of revelation.
Additional thoughts, Where I to accept your statement that the Catholic church was the continuation of the Church Christ set up I would have to resolve a ton of questions.
1 Now as I understand catholic history Peter is revered as the first Pope. Peter was married. (Matthew 8:14-15.) Paul warns against the forbidding to marry (1 Tim 4:3). Yet we see that Popes are unmarried. How is such a thing this different with no biblical record?
Isaiah warns against the changes or ordinances and breaking the new and everlasting covenant. (24:5) Yet in Catholic belief and practice one may be “baptized” by sprinkling.Again how can the ordinance be changed and there be no direction in the Bible or revelation via a prophet or apostle that this is changed?
The Catholic church has held for years that they alone have the priesthood power to perform ordinances, yet a few years back they agreed to a reciprocity agreement with (98% sure the Anglican church). How did the break away church get the power to do so?
Christ taught us to pray to the Father. All the Catholics I have known spend nearly all their time in prayer addressing Mary or one of the Saints.Why is the tradition of the church so at odds with the words of Christ?
The Bible teaches us of baptism for the dead, Catholics forbid this practice. Why is a Biblical practice forbidden?
Why are there not prophets and apostles in the church today? (Amos 3:7, Acts 21:10 Eph 2:20, eph 3:5, Eph 4:11-13) You put a lot of emphasis about the church being built on the rock. The Bible is clear that the church was lead by revelation to the prophets and apostles. How then if the church is not on that foundation. How can it be built upon the ROCK!?
I could keep going, but I think this is sufficient.
I have had many Catholic friends, I have attended services and I agree with much of what is taught and believed. I would even say that aside from some nasty events in the dark ages I have a lot of respect for the Catholic church, however I can’t agree to the assertion that it is the same Church Jesus Christ set up as the Bible plainly teaches me otherwise.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Truth in love I think you opened a can or worms... Maybe even stuck your own foot into your mouth!.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Truth in love So I must assume you believe....."the man of lawlessness HAS BEEN revealed," Otherwise; Why your church!? Your Church was founded in 1980 by Eugene Oliver Walton (November 6, 1927 – May 28, 2010).
Could the Man of Lawlessness be Joseph Smith!? Because your Church is an offshoot of the LDS!
J Smith taught there was NO Christian church left on earth! And that... He was commissioned by God to Re-FORM what was lost!
Question.. What happened in 1980 that would have been "The Man Of Lawlessness"?!
Truth in love You must remember God cannot contradict himself or lead into error! "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of the world!"
&
"I will build my Church on ROCK the gates of hell will not prevail against her"!
Jesus did not build on sand!
Jesus Loves the ONLY Church he established on ROCK, he died for his Church.! His Church is blameless and without error!
To say this is why you reject the church God built on ROCK ..... 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Question: Did J Smith set himself up in GOD' TEMPLE!?
If it was not J Smith; the man of lawlessness then who? And is your Church "God' Temple"!? If NOT... THEN... Why do you go to your church that is NOT God' Temple!???
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Truth in love “Did Jesus die for his Church?” No, it was not so limited, He suffered and died far all of God’s children. This includes the Jew, Christian, Heathen etc.
I reply... Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her ...
Truth in love Is the Church that Jesus established his own Body and does Jesus Care for his Church?! Not literally his body, it’s a metaphor. He as his body.
I reply... Eph 5:28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.
&
John 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
LOOK.... Baptism ADDS us to the Body of Jesus! 3000 were ADDED the first day of Pentecost!
Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Truth in love Baptism ADDS us the Holy Catholic Apostolic Body of Jesus.. Communion KEEPS us in his Body! Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
Jesus feeds his body... If you don't eat you die... remains in me, and I in them
Jesus is the TRUE Manna... The people of Moses had to eat to live.. All who refused the Manna died!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
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Continuation from the post above...
Truth in love Yes Peter was married.... Paul did not forbid marriage! Peter was NO Married when he was the Chief Bishop. When Jesus gave Peter the Job of Chief Shepherd to Peter he was single!
THE primacy of Peter is clearly noted in the Bible:
"And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock ['Peter' is Greek for 'rock'] 1 will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19).
"I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers" (Luke 22:33).
God sent an angel to Peter to announce the Resurrection of Jesus (Mark 6:7).
The risen Jesus first appeared to Peter (Luke 24:34).
Peter headed the meeting which elected Matthias as replacement for Judas (Acts 1:13-26).
Peter led the apostles in preaching on Pentecost (Acts 2:14).
Peter led the meeting which decided on which terms Gentiles would be allowed into the Church (Acts 15).
Peter was the judge of Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5:1-11).
Jesus entrusted Peter with his flock, making him too a Good Shepherd (John 21:15-17).
Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost (Acts 3).
After his conversion Paul went to see Peter, the chief apostle (Gal. 1:18).
Throughout the New Testament, when the apostles are listed as a group, Peter's name is always first. Sometimes it's just "Peter and the twelve. "
Peter's name is mentioned more often than the names of all the other apostles put together.
"God the father from heaven kept Peter from making an error" (Matthew 16:18)
"I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers" (Luke 22:33).
The primacy of Peter is clearly noted in the Bible: God sent an angel to Peter to announce the Resurrection of Jesus (Mark 6:7).
The risen Jesus first appeared to Peter (Luke 24:34).
The primacy of Peter is clearly noted in the Bible: Peter headed the meeting which elected Matthias as replacement for Judas (Acts 1:13-26).
The primacy of Peter is clearly noted in the Bible: ONLY....Peter walked on water
The primacy of Peter is clearly noted in the Bible: Peter spoke for Jesus "In Jesus' name" With the AUTHORITY of Jesus!!
Peter was first to enter the tomb!
Peter raised the dead.
The primacy of Peter is clearly noted in the Bible: Peter shadow cured all it fell on.
The word Peter means ROCK! Jesus changed Simons name to "ROCK"! ONLY with the most important people God changes their name!
Yes all twelve Apostles hold keys.. Keys are a symbol of AUTHORITY!
Truth in love The One Holy Catholic APOSTOLIC Church established by Jesus founded on the Apostles has the AUTHORITY to bind and Loose!
You ask.... Yet in Catholic belief and practice one may be “baptized” by sprinkling. Again how can the ordinance be changed and there be no direction in the Bible or revelation via a prophet or apostle that this is changed?
Question.. How do the Eskimos Baptize? How do those living in a desert with little water baptize?! The Holy Church Jesus gave to the world...has the AUTHORITY given her to baptize nothing says there has to be completer submersion!
The Didache A.D. 70
“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
You ask... Christ taught us to pray to the Father. All the Catholics I have known spend nearly all their time in prayer addressing Mary or one of the Saints. Why is the tradition of the church so at odds with the words of Christ?
Answer is simple.. The Church is alive in heaven! The Saints are ALIVE! They are more close to God then we are!! You ask a friend to pray for you.. WHY?!
Why do you pray for anyone they can go directly to God!???
The Saints are without sin God is with them... Your friend might not even end up in heaven!
You ask.,.. The Bible teaches us of baptism for the dead, Catholics forbid this practice. Why is a Biblical practice forbidden?
Reply: Baptism ADDS us to the Body of Jesus! 3000 were ADDED to the body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost!
The dead that you (Mormons) baptize might not be in heaven! The Church forms the children of Adam into the form of God' children by the waters of Baptism... The Dead are FORM-Less it is too late for them!
You ask... Why are there not prophets and apostles in the church today? (Amos 3:7, Acts 21:10 Eph 2:20, eph 3:5, Eph 4:11-13) You put a lot of emphasis about the church being built on the rock. The Bible is clear that the church was lead by revelation to the prophets and apostles. How then if the church is not on that foundation. How can it be built upon the ROCK!?
Answer: Prophets speak for God! Moses was a Prophet! Priests are the Hands of God! Together the Church with her Priests and Bishops have the AUTHORITY of God To "Teach All Nations"!
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
The One, Holy Catholic Apostolic Church came before the Bible! The Bible is a book of the Church!
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
“Truth in love So I must assume you believe....."the man of lawlessness HAS BEEN revealed," Otherwise; Why your church!? Your Church was founded in 1980 by Eugene Oliver Walton (November 6, 1927 – May 28, 2010).” No. Not sure why your assuming that. But really no.
“Could the Man of Lawlessness be Joseph Smith!? Because your Church is an offshoot of the LDS!
J Smith taught there was NO Christian church left on earth! And that... He was commissioned by God to Re-FORM what was lost!
Question.. What happened in 1980 that would have been "The Man Of Lawlessness"?!”
No Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. That would be the opposite of what you are suggesting.
He built a temple as directed by the Lord.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
“The primacy of Peter is clearly noted in the Bible:” Agreed, but where does it say his wife was gone?
The Bible is clear that baptism was by immersion. If it were by sprinkling 1 it would not be called baptism and 2 the baptisms would not have been done in a river.
You citing a non biblical source that runs very different from what the Bible says. I’ll stick to the Bible.
One prayer this is still not a biblical practice on contrary to what I find there.
“You ask.,.. The Bible teaches us of baptism for the dead, Catholics forbid this practice. Why is a Biblical practice forbidden?
Reply: Baptism ADDS us to the Body of Jesus! 3000 were ADDED to the body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost!
The dead that you (Mormons) baptize might not be in heaven! The Church forms the children of Adam into the form of God' children by the waters of Baptism... The Dead are FORM-Less it is too late for them!” Again not what the Bible says.
You ask... Why are there not prophets and apostles in the church today? (Amos 3:7, Acts 21:10 Eph 2:20, eph 3:5, Eph 4:11-13) You put a lot of emphasis about the church being built on the rock. The Bible is clear that the church was lead by revelation to the prophets and apostles. How then if the church is not on that foundation. How can it be built upon the ROCK!?
“Answer: Prophets speak for God! Moses was a Prophet! Priests are the Hands of God! Together the Church with her Priests and Bishops have the AUTHORITY of God To "Teach All Nations"!
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
The One, Holy Catholic Apostolic Church came before the Bible! The Bible is a book of the Church! “ Again what the Bible says and what you are saying are not even close.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
You said... No Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. That would be the opposite of what you are suggesting.
He built a temple as directed by the Lord.
Okay you say..... J Smith built a temple of God! J Smith said there was NONE Left on earth.. So you believe; J Smith taught Jesus failed! ...Jesus failed to build on ROCK! To believe this you MUST reject the scriptures! J Smith rejected the scriptures!
Truth in love any temple that has come along after Jesus must be of the Lawless Man! Smith is a good candidate for the Lawless Man!
The Lawless man comes AFTER Jesus!
Jesus established his Church two thousand years ago....... The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church has traceable roots back to Jesus!
Peter the Key Holder the Chief Shepherd! was given the Authority of Jesus to speak for Jesus! The Apostles are the New Testament Bishops they speak for God! The Pope is a New Testament Prophet!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Peter had a wife...
We know that St. Peter did have a wife, because Jesus cured Peter’s mother-in-law (Matt. 8:14-15, Luke 4:38-39).
Truth in love The Catholic Bishops are of the same linage of the Apostles... Judas was replaced by another Bishop! The Apostles spoke for God!
........Prophets speak for God!
Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: ‘Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein’; and, ‘His bishopric let another take.’
Not any Mormon Bishops they do Not have linage back to Jesus They have NO Authority to speak for God!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
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Truth in love I hope all is well...
I must also point out... Christians believe in ONE (1) God and only one God! To be Christian you must believe as Christians!
John 5:44
How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
Mormons believe in Many God' they are NOT Christian!
Deuteronomy 4:35
You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides him there is no other.
Truth in love all other gods of man are made by man! The Mormons have many gods that are made by them they teach: MANY gods; They believe in MANY gods! AS IF....
Truth in love as if each man can be a god on his own planet... Christians reject many gods we believe in ONE and ONLY One (1) God!
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Truth in love You reject the truth for a lie, Satan is the father of lies.... He would teach men to believe in "Many god" he hates Christians because Christians are "Christ Followers!"
The Anti-Christ is "Anti-Christian!"
The Man of Lawlessness could very well be Joseph Smith because he did the work of the Anti-Christ attacking Christian beliefs!!?
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
1.
So what I hear is that in order to be a Christian I need to have a rewrite of John 17 as follows
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Me, the hour is come; glorify Me that I also may glorify me:
2 As I hast given me power over all flesh, that I should give eternal life to as many as I hast given me.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know me the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom is the same person.
4 I have glorified me on the earth: I have finished the work which I gavest me to do.
5 And now, Me, glorify thou me with my own self with the glory which I had with me before the world was.
6 I have manifested my name unto the men which I gavest me out of the world: mine they were, and I gavest them me; and they have kept my word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever I hast given me are of me.
8 For I have given unto them the words which I gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from me, and they have believed that I didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which I hast given me; for they are mine.
10 And all mine are mine, and mine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Me, keep through my own name those whom I hast given me, that they may be one, as I am one with myself.
If the 12 are to be one as the Son and Father are also a bit further down we find
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be cone in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
So the core nature and oneness of Christ and His father is what all believers are to become. So a billionity????
While not a rare belief in Christian circles it is hardly a universal doctrine and not one taught in the Bible. It is found in the creeds.
As for their being many gods. Christ shared a bit on this
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Now if he says this and I agree, how is this a lie from Satan?
The Prophet did not attack the truth, he called out the doctrines of men masquerading as the gospel.