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Christians: Is Jesus a 'Deity'', to you?

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
You simply cross reference the Deity, who is leading the Israelites out of Egypt, and began the first Covenant,/elsewhere in Scripture,, and that is the 'same' God, that is being referred to, in the Book of Hebrews. If you do not think it is the same deity, then you are directly inferring that the Scripture is wrong, or contradicting itself.

I can't figure out why you folks keep reading these texts as Jesus is God, rather then what he says, = he is the Messiah. The messiah has a job to do = bringing the end, and Final Judgment.

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel (Pastor) of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Also translates as, - the commencement (carrying out) of the ordinance/LAWS of God;

In other words - the MESSIAH brings the truth - and begins - justice - Final Judgment.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Why would there need to be TWO thrones in heaven - if Jesus is God????

They did not teach that there were multiple Gods in heaven. These thrones are for YHVH, and his prophesized special HUMAN Messiah (Line of David) who was to bring the end, and make Final Judgment.

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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I can be one with God, - and it doesn't mean I am God, - but instead, just that I am in complete agreement with God.


There are other verses which indicate that that is not all that means. Ultimately, it does not help the 'separate' entity argument. For instance, if Jesus is completely 'one' with the father, then we would not have any sort of separate character inferences, elsewhere in Scripture.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I can't figure out why you folks keep reading these texts as Jesus is God, rather then what he says, = he is the Messiah. The messiah has a job to do = bringing the end, and Final Judgment.

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel (Pastor) of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Also translates as, - the commencement (carrying out) of the ordinance/LAWS of God;

In other words - the MESSIAH brings the truth - and begins - justice - Final Judgment.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Why would there need to be TWO thrones in heaven - if Jesus is God????

They did not teach that there were multiple Gods in heaven. These thrones are for YHVH, and his prophesized special HUMAN Messiah (Line of David) who was to bring the end, and make Final Judgment.

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In
Revelation 3:21,
We notice that Jesus is actually seated in His fathers Throne. They 'seem', to be sharing a Throne. Makes sense, for One God.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
All of the ^ above ^ titles are titles, and no titles are the Tetragramaton YHWH/YHVH name.

That says nothing, and obviously is NOT a rebuttal of what I said.

EDIT - Forgot to say - that is why I put YHVH in each.

King David did pen Psalms 110, but David was not the priest in the order of Melchizedek - Psalms 110:4-7
David was foretelling that there would be a future heir, one who will be both king/priest as Melchizedek was. - Hebrews 7:21; Hebrews 7: 25-26
When David is resurrected he may be a ' prince ' on Earth - Ezekiel 334:23-24; Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32:1

King David did NOT write Psalms, - it was written long after he was dead. It was written by a Psalmist - ABOUT King David.

Did you forget that David was at war?

EDIT - wrong person.

Why would Jesus whom Judges - say this?

Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

Also why would there be only ONE in the Priestly ORDER of Melchizedek?

The Kings are Anointed, - thus could be of the Order of.

We have no info telling us what the Order of Melchizedek is.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
In
Revelation 3:21,
We notice that Jesus is actually seated in His fathers Throne. They 'seem', to be sharing a Throne. Makes sense, for One God.

Translation error. It should be - at, as in - sit with me at my throne.

If we stick with that idea of sharing a throne, then per the first part of the sentence, - we ALL are God. And that is NOT what they taught.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
There are other verses which indicate that that is not all that means. Ultimately, it does not help the 'separate' entity argument. For instance, if Jesus is completely 'one' with the father, then we would not have any sort of separate character inferences, elsewhere in Scripture.

First - we have shown problems with all such translations.

We do have verses where he tells us he doesn't do it, - his father does.

John 5:30 I can do nothing by myself; but as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just; for I do not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

When they say he is good, he says only GOD is good.

Mark 10:18 And he Jesus said to him: why me call good? None/Not even one is good; not one but the Deity.

He tells us bluntly in Matthew that - it is NOT his to give, - it is given by the Father.

Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord OUR God, the Lord is ONE.

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rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This question is directed at Christians, however any Jesus adherents can answer, if it pertains to their beliefs.
/Is Jesus a 'Deity'?
/Is Jesus a 'different' Deity, from God, or the father?
/Is Jesus 'half man, half deity?
/Is Jesus a 'deified human', yet not a Deity?
/If Jesus is separate from the 'father', how is He 'G-d?
The Bible speaks of Jesus as "Mighty God" at Isaiah 9:6. The firstborn of all creation, Jesus has been given "all authority in heaven and on earth" by Jehovah. (Matthew 28:18) However, though having immense power and authority, I believe Jesus will always be subject to and worship his God, Jehovah. (1 Corinthians 15:28) It is only Jehovah who is to be worshipped, IMO. (Matthew 4:10)
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ok, however, Elohim, is used alone, as a designator of 'God'. So, not sure how you have the conclusion that it doesn't actually mean 'Lord God'.
The Hebrew is inferring the 'same thing' as the translation.
Personally, I would prefer an /English Scripture, that just leaves the titles, in a transliterated form, as opposed to a 'translation'. Example, JHVH.

// some Bibles do employ that method

I actually find it interesting that we have Elohiym in the first creation books of the Bible, and YHVH Elohiym doesn't show up until Gen 2:4.

Elohiym is Plural Gods, and the Hebrew originally had a God and Goddess. Very interesting.

Gen 1:26 And Elohiym said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 1:27 So Elohiym created man in his own image, in the image of Elohiym created he them; male and female created he them.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
The Bible speaks of Jesus as "Mighty God" at Isaiah 9:6. The firstborn of all creation, Jesus has been given "all authority in heaven and on earth" by Jehovah. (Matthew 28:18) However, though having immense power and authority, I believe Jesus will always be subject to and worship his God, Jehovah. (1 Corinthians 15:28) It is only Jehovah who is to be worshipped, IMO. (Matthew 4:10)

Actually that is jumping to a conclusion.

Isaiah 9:6 is not about Jesus as any Jew will tell you. And the words translated mighty God - should not have been translated that way.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isa 9:8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.

Isa 9:9 And all the people shall know, even Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria, that say in the pride and stoutness of heart,

Isa 9:10 The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.

Isa 9:11 Therefore the LORD shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together;

Isa 9:12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Isaiah is specific and tells us it is talking about the war.

Isa 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Also why would there be only ONE in the Priestly ORDER of Melchizedek?
The Kings are Anointed, - thus could be of the Order of.
We have no info telling us what the Order of Melchizedek is.
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The Order was that Melchizedek was 'King' of Salem, and 'Priest' of the Most High God, according to Genesis 14:18
Being King of Salem ( which means peace ) he is identified by Paul as the ' King of Peace ', and on the basis of his name as 'King of Righteousness' - Hebrews 7
Abraham gives Melchizedek ( the King/Priest ) a tenth of everything for successful warfare against the allied kings - Genesis 14:17-20; Hebrews 7:4
Psalms 110:4 gave the Hebrews reason to regard the promised Messiah the combined office of both being ' King and Priest '- Hebrews 6:20; Hebrews 5:10; Hebrews 5:6
Psalms 110:4 is applied to Christ Jesus at Hebrews 5:1; Hebrews 5:4-6
It is made plain to us that human perfection for us under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law is unattainable.
Jesus comes from the non-priestly tribe of Judah. So, Jesus like Melchizedek becomes a priest, Not according to the Law, but according to the power in indestructible life.
Jesus' priesthood was conferred on him by an ' oath ' from his God to be alive forever without having any priestly successors because of Jesus gaining indestructible life - John 5:26
- Hebrews 7:11-13; Hebrews 7:14-16; Hebrews 7:17-19; Hebrews 7:20-22; Hebrews 7:23-25. Jesus being a perpetual Priest - Hebrews 7:3
( Melchizedek's record shows him having No predecessor nor successor to his 'priesthood', and that is also true of Jesus' priesthood )
Thus, Melchizedek could rightly typify Jesus by ' God's sworn oath ' - Hebrews 6:20; Hebrews 7:20-22 - with Jesus also being both King and Priest forever for us.
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
The Order was that Melchizedek was 'King' of Salem, and 'Priest' of the Most High God, according to Genesis 14:18
Being King of Salem ( which means peace ) he is identified by Paul as the ' King of Peace ', and on the basis of his name as 'King of Righteousness' - Hebrews 7
Abraham gives Melchizedek ( the King/Priest ) a tenth of everything for successful warfare against the allied kings - Genesis 14:17-20; Hebrews 7:4
Psalms 110:4 gave the Hebrews reason to regard the promised Messiah the combined office of both being ' King and Priest '- Hebrews 6:20; Hebrews 5:10; Hebrews 5:6
Psalms 110:4 is applied to Christ Jesus at Hebrews 5:1; Hebrews 5:4-6
It is made plain to us that human perfection for us under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law is unattainable.
Jesus comes from the non-priestly tribe of Judah. So, Jesus like Melchizedek becomes a priest, Not according to the Law, but according to the power in indestructible life.
Jesus' priesthood was conferred on him by an ' oath ' from his God to be alive forever without having any priestly successors because of Jesus gaining indestructible life - John 5:26
- Hebrews 7:11-13; Hebrews 7:14-16; Hebrews 7:17-19; Hebrews 7:20-22; Hebrews 7:23-25. Jesus being a perpetual Priest - Hebrews 7:3
( Melchizedek's record shows him having No predecessor nor successor to his 'priesthood', and that is also true of Jesus' priesthood )
Thus, Melchizedek could rightly typify Jesus by ' God's sworn oath ' - Hebrews 6:20; Hebrews 7:20-22 - with Jesus also being both King and Priest forever for us.

None of the Christian verses matter as we are talking about a Tanakh text. Christians try to insert Jesus into any text they can, - after the fact.

Psams 110 is talking about King David who was Anointed and a Priest, as were his sons.


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Psa 110:1
A Psalm of David. YHVH said unto my lord (David,) Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Psa 110:2 YHVH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Psa 110:4 YHVH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

2Sa 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

2Sa 7:17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

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2Sa 6:12 And it was told king David, saying, The LORD hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

2Sa 6:13 And it was so, that when they that bare the ark of the LORD had gone six paces, he sacrificed oxen and fatlings.

2Sa 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

2Sa 6:15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.

2Sa 6:16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

2Sa 6:17 And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.

2Sa 6:18 And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts.

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David communicates with God wearing the Priest's Ephod -

23:9 When David realized that Saul was planning to harm him, he told Abiathar the priest, “Bring the ephod!”

23:10 Then David said, “O Lord God of Israel, your servant has clearly heard that Saul is planning to come to Keilah to destroy the city because of me.

Some of His sons were also priests.

ephod.jpg


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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Psams 110 is talking about King David who was Anointed and a Priest, as were his sons.

A perfect example of taking a verse and making it say what it doesn't say!

Psalms 110:1 (ESV Strong's) 1 The Lord says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”

Hebrews 1:8-13 (ESV Strong's) 8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?

Psa 110:4 YHVH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 5:5-6 (ESV Strong's) 5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; 6 as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 7:14-17 (ESV Strong's) 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of him, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”

So you are suggesting there are "2" priests after the order of Melchizedek?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
A perfect example of taking a verse and making it say what it doesn't say!

Psalms 110:1 (ESV Strong's) 1 The Lord says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”

LOL! I suggest you look it up in the Hebrew. It does NOT say "Lord" twice, - and it says it is a psalm of DAVID, - whom fits ALL of the qualifications -

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. YHVH said unto my lord (David,) Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Psa 110:2 YHVH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Psa 110:4 YHVH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

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I showed he was both King and Priest as Melchizedek was. = He wore the Priest's Ephod and made the sacrifices.


2Sa 6:13 And it was so, that when they that bare the ark of the LORD had gone six paces, he sacrificed oxen and fatlings.

2Sa 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

2Sa 6:15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.

2Sa 6:16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

2Sa 6:17 And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.

Note the Priest's EPHOD in the picture

ephod.jpg


Hebrews 1:8-13 (ESV Strong's) 8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?

Hebrews 5:5-6 (ESV Strong's) 5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; 6 as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 7:14-17 (ESV Strong's) 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of him, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”

So you are suggesting there are "2" priests after the order of Melchizedek?

ALL of your much-much-much-later, - written after Jesus' death, - while Knowing Tanakh, - and wanting to fit Jesus into the Jewish Messiah role, verses, - makes all the Christian verses untrustworthy - when translating or understanding Jewish texts.

LANGE - David, at a time when the temple-worship was suspended, and from the absence of priests, exceptionally fulfilled priestly functions (2 Samuel 6), but immediately restored the legal order of things, and transferred the official authority of the priesthood to the Levites (2Sa_8:17; 2Sa_20:25).

Psalms 108, 109, and 110, all say they are about DAVID.

Isn't it a bit convenient for Christians - to say it changes from David - to Jesus - in 110?

READ THIS - from a JEWISH site - https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledg...olemics/texts/psalm-110-a-jewish-perspective/

"Psalm 110 was composed in the third person to be sung by the Levites, and thus reflects their point of view, for they would call their king “my master – adoni.” In other words, the Levites are saying that “God spoke to our master (King David). Sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”

It was composed at the beginning of David’s reign. When the Philistines heard that Israel had anointed David as king, they came to fight with him, David talks about his reassurance from G-d that He would fight with the Jews against their enemies. As it says:
“He arose and struck the Philistines until his hand was weary and did cleave to his sword and the Lord wrought a great victory that day.”(2 Samuel 23 v.l0)"

"How was David like Melchizedek?

A priest after the manner of Melchizedek does not refer to Jesus taking over the Levitical priesthood forever.2
This statement also refers to King David.
Melchizedek was non-Jewish a King who lived during the times of Abraham as it says:
“And Melchizedek King of Salem brought forth bread and wine and he was a priest (Kohen) of G-d the most high” Genesis 14:18
Even thought he was not Jewish and could not be from the tribe of Levy, he is called a priest (Kohen) because of his position of service. Similarly, Jethro (Moses’ father-in-law) was called a “priest (Kohen) of Midian.” Exodus 18:1"

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Muffled

Jesus in me
This question is directed at Christians, however any Jesus adherents can answer, if it pertains to their beliefs.
/Is Jesus a 'Deity'?
/Is Jesus a 'different' Deity, from God, or the father?
/Is Jesus 'half man, half deity?
/Is Jesus a 'deified human', yet not a Deity?
/If Jesus is separate from the 'father', how is He 'G-d?

I believe He is The Deity.

I believe Jesus is the same Deity. There is only one.

Jesus is human connected to the Spirit of God making Him one soul.

I believe that concept is false.

I believe Jesus and the Father are one so there is no separation.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The Bible teaches at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.
God is Un-created, meaning God had No beginning - Psalms 90:2
So, only God was before the beginning. The pre-human Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Thus, the pre-human heavenly Jesus is the Son of God and Not God. God is the One who sent the pre-human Jesus to Earth as a ransom for us - Matthew 20:28
Being from God, then Jesus is divine, but Not God. It was God who resurrected the dead Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 3:15; 5:30; Colossians 2:12

I believe your premise is a misinterpretation so you conclusion is false.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
In the Baha'i belief Jesus was a Manifestation of God... Being a Manifestation He reflected perfectly the attributes of God to humanity. He had innate knowledge.
The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being...'.

A Divine Manifestation is as a mirror reflecting the light of the Sun. The light is the same and yet the mirror is not the Sun. All the Manifestations of God bring the same Light; they only differ in degree, not in reality.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 66

I believe if you are referring to a separate spirit from the Spirit of God that you are in error. The only spirit that existed before the birth of Jesus was The Spirit of God.

I believe there is a thread about this in Biblical Debates and I refute that statement. The simile just doesn't work correctly but he does follow it up with what he is really trying to convey.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
In
Revelation 3:21,
We notice that Jesus is actually seated in His fathers Throne. They 'seem', to be sharing a Throne. Makes sense, for One God.

Yes, and there is a gravtational field in heaven that pulls, well, the rear ends of Jesus and God on a throne. Makes a lot of sense.

Ciao

- viole
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
LOL! I suggest you look it up in the Hebrew. It does NOT say "Lord" twice, - and it says it is a psalm of DAVID, - whom fits ALL of the qualifications -

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. YHVH said unto my lord (David,) Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Psa 110:2 YHVH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Psa 110:4 YHVH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

So you're claiming that there were "2" priests like Melchizedek?

Hebrews 5:5-6 (ESV Strong's) 5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; 6 as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.

David 'AND' Jesus?

I wonder where "He says also in another place" is at!! YHVH speaking of Jesus, Lord!
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
So you're claiming that there were "2" priests like Melchizedek?

Hebrews 5:5-6 (ESV Strong's) 5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; 6 as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.

David 'AND' Jesus?

I wonder where "He says also in another place" is at!! YHVH speaking of Jesus, Lord!

In the first place, obviously there could be more then two, as it says - after the ORDER of.

Your Christian texts, written much later, - and after the fact, - hold no weight against Tanakh.

They were looking for texts they could use to make Jesus look more like the Messiah. They substituted Jesus for David in that text.

You folks really need to stop taking things out of context! Look at Hebrews 5 - it is talking about special called priests. It is not saying Jesus is the one in the other verse.

Heb 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Heb 5:2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

Heb 5:3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.

Heb 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

The only writing in another place - with supplication and tears - WHERE HE WAS HEARD AND SAVED - is about DAVID. The later Jesus DIED.

David did not die - he was heard.

SO - "As he saith also in another place," refers to the subject - special priests that are called, - and it tells us that one - David - lived.

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arthra

Baha'i
I believe if you are referring to a separate spirit from the Spirit of God that you are in error. The only spirit that existed before the birth of Jesus was The Spirit of God.
I believe there is a thread about this in Biblical Debates and I refute that statement. The simile just doesn't work correctly but he does follow it up with what he is really trying to convey.

Thanks for your post "Muffled"!

I can understand your concern above re. "....if you are referring to a separate spirit from the Spirit of God that you are in error"

I'll quote again the reference:

A Divine Manifestation is as a mirror reflecting the light of the Sun. The light is the same and yet the mirror is not the Sun. All the Manifestations of God bring the same Light; they only differ in degree, not in reality.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 66

The reference to "Sun" above is to God and His Light which shines is His Spirit.

Today the light of Truth is shining upon the world in its abundance; the breezes of the heavenly garden are blowing throughout all regions; the call of the Kingdom is heard in all lands, and the breath of the Holy Spirit is felt in all hearts that are faithful. The Spirit of God is giving eternal life. In this wonderful age the East is enlightened, the West is fragrant, and everywhere the soul inhales the holy perfume. The sea of the unity of mankind is lifting up its waves with joy, for there is real communication between the hearts and minds of men. The banner of the Holy Spirit is uplifted, and men see it, and are assured with the knowledge that this is a new day.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 19
 
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