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Christians instigated Jesus Crucifixion, Attempting to Take Heaven by Force for Worldly Exaltation

Discussion in 'Catholic DIR' started by Steven Merten, Mar 31, 2020.

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  1. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Active Member

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    Matthew 3:8,
    They were being baptized by him in the Jordan River as they confessed their sins. When he saw that many of the Pharisees and Sadducees were stepping forward for this bath, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who told you to flee from the wrath to come? Give some evidence that you mean to reform. Do not pride yourselves on the claim, 'Abraham is our father.' I tell you, God can raise up children to Abraham from these very stones."

    Mark 11:27 Jesus' authority in question
    They returned once more to Jerusalem. As he was walking in the temple area, the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders approached him and said to him, "By what authority are you doing these things? Or who gave you this authority to do them?" Jesus said to them, "I shall ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things. Was John's baptism of heavenly or of human origin? Answer me."
    When discussing, Baptized by John the Baptist, Christians, a fellow Catholic told me that there were no Christians before Pentecost, which happened after Jesus’ Crucifixion and Resurrection, thus it was the Jews alone who instigated Jesus’ Crucifixion. Baptized by John the Baptist, followers of John, were abusing John’s Baptism to verbally force their way into ‘the Kingdom of God’, that John preached about. The reason the self righteous Pharisees were getting Baptized by John, was to glorify and exalt themselves to the world as being God’s Chosen people, in possession of Heaven, above all the, Baptized by John, repentant, prostitutes, tax collectors, and other sinners, whom the Pharisees deemed as unsaved. When Jesus pointed out that it was repentant prostitutes and tax collectors who were entering into the Kingdom of God, but the self-exalting Pharisees were going to hell, this is when the Pharisees began to plot a way to murder Jesus.

    So what do you think? Were Pharisees, who were Baptized by John the Baptist, Christians or Jews?

    Luke 16:16 The Law.
    "The law and the prophets were in force until John. From his time on, the good news of God's kingdom has been proclaimed, and people of every sort are forcing their way in. It is easier for the heavens and the earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a letter of the law to pass.

    Matthew 11:11
    "I solemnly assure you, history has not known a man born of woman greater than John the Baptizer. Yet the least born into the Kingdom of God is greater than he. From John the Baptizer's time until now the kingdom of God has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force."

    Matthew 21:37
    "Finally he sent his son to them, thinking, "They will respect my son.' When they saw the son, the tenants said to one another, 'Here is the one who will inherit everything. Let us kill him and then we shall have his inheritance!" With that they seized him, dragged him outside the vineyard, and killed him."

    Matthew 5:20

    I tell you, unless your holiness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees you shall not enter the kingdom of God."

    Matthew 21:43
    Therefore, I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people that will produce its fruit.

    Matthew 23:12
    Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, but whoever humbles himself shall be exalted. "Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You shut the doors of the kingdom of God in men's faces, neither entering yourselves nor admitting those who are trying to enter. Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You travel over sea and land to make a convert, but once he is converted you make a devil of him twice as wicked as yourselves.

    Luke 18:9 The Pharisee and the tax collector.
    He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. "Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank [eucharisteo] you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

    Matthew 22 The Wedding Banquet
    Jesus again in reply spoke to them in parables, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son. He dispatched his servants to summon the invited guests to the feast, but they refused to come. A second time he sent other servants, saying, 'Tell those invited: "Behold, I have prepared my banquet, my calves and fattened cattle are killed, and everything is ready; come to the feast."' Some ignored the invitation and went away, one to his farm, another to his business. The rest laid hold of his servants, mistreated them, and killed them. The king was enraged and sent his troops, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city. Then he said to his servants, 'The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come. Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.' The servants went out into the streets and gathered all they found, bad and good alike, and the hall was filled with guests. But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment. He said to him, 'My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?' But he was reduced to silence. Then the king said to his attendants, 'Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.' Many are invited, but few are chosen." Then the Pharisees went off and plotted how they might entrap him in speech.

    John 5:39
    "Search the Scriptures in which you think you have eternal life--they also testify on my behalf. Yet you are unwilling to come to me to possess that life. It is not that I accept human praise-- it is simply that I know you, and you do not have the love of God in your hearts."
    Matthew 12:14
    When the Pharisees were outside they began to plot against him to find a way to destroy him.
     
  2. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    Jesus was a Jew. John the baptist was a Jew, as were Paul, James, etc...
     
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  3. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    Are you a Catholic? If not, you can't post here.
     
  4. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    Yes
     
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  5. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Active Member

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    I am Catholic.
     
    #5 Steven Merten, Mar 31, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  6. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Active Member

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    Hello Regiomontanus,

    People demanding that you acknowledge them as in possession of ‘The Kingdom of God’, over others they judge as unsaved, is really an evil Christian thing, rather than a Jewish thing; wouldn’t you agree? Scripture shows us that the motive the Pharisees had to murder Jesus, is that Jesus did not acknowledge the self righteous Pharisees as those in possession of ‘The Kingdom of God’, over the repentant tax collectors and prostitutes, whom the Pharisees judged as unsaved. I do not see Jesus' and John’s teachings on ‘The Kingdom of God’ in Old Testament. I see Jesus and John the Baptist’s teaching on ‘The Kingdom of God’ as a new Christian teaching, started by John the Baptist. Matthew 11 From John the Baptizer's time until now the kingdom of God has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. Technicalities aside, Do you see Jesus and John’s teachings on ‘The Kingdom of God’, which led to Jesus Crucifixion, as Jewish religion or Christian religion?

    Luke 16:16 The Law.
    "The law and the prophets were in force until John. From his time on, the good news of God's kingdom has been proclaimed, and people of every sort are forcing their way in.
     
  7. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    The Latin gives you away.:D
     
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  8. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    "Do you see Jesus and John’s teachings on ‘The Kingdom of God’, which led to Jesus Crucifixion, as Jewish religion or Christian religion?"

    Jesus was a Jew. Of course, there was no one Judaism then or now. And I see the 'Jesus movement' as thoroughly Jewish, though a reinterpretation of scripture to make sense of the resurrection; they were convinced Jesus was the messiah and looked to (what we call) the Old Testament to make sense of events. IMHO.
     
  9. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    It has been an interesting journey from atheist to follower of Jesus to, fairly recently, the Catholic faith. :blueheart:
     
  10. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I can make no such claims to conviction, being a cradle Catholic, lapsed for much of my life and distinctly semi-detached and rather agnostic now. But as I grow older I find I do rather love the church - there is no other word - especially the sense of calm and continuity it offers when things don't go so well - as, increasingly, they don't.;)
     
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  11. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Welcome home :)
     
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  12. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Welcome.
     
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  13. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Active Member

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    Luke 18:9 The Pharisee and the tax collector.
    He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. "Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank [eucharisteo] you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."


    Eucharisteo; with the dative it always stands where there is implied a kindness done, a favor, a charis, a grace for an undeserved gift received where it appears as thanks for any good experience.

    Charis; from chairio, to rejoice, or chara, joy, favor, acceptance, a kindness granted or desired, a benefit, thanks, gratitude, grace. A favor done without expectation of return; absolute freeness of loving kindness of God to men finding its only motive in the bounty and freeheartedness of the Giver; unearned an unmerited favor.

    Quoted from: Lexicon to the Old and New Testaments, Copyright 1984 by Spiros Zodhiates, TH.D AMG publishers. D/B/A AMG Publishers. Baker book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan.​


    The term ‘pharisee’ means 'the separated'. In Jesus’ Parable of 'The Pharisee and the Tax Collector', Jesus tells us that the ('Grace Alone') Christian Pharisee was not ‘Justified’, because he exalted himself, over others, as in possession of heaven. The Christian Pharisee claimed that his righteousness over others was ‘Echaristeo’, which means a free and unmerited gift from God ('Grace Alone'). It was the humble tax collector Christian, who prayed 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' whom Jesus did ‘Justify’. Please, my fellow Catholics, do not get caught up in this exaltation of one’s self as in possession of the heaven, over others as being unsaved. This self exaltation of Christians, forcing their way into heaven, over others, is the evil which instigated the death of our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
    #13 Steven Merten, Apr 6, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
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