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Christians in the military

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
He certainly knows the consequences of what will happen, yes.

That is why he pleads with mankind not to behave in certain ways. Our bad conduct is not part of his plan....that is seen by the fact that he says whoever is acting wickedly will come to their finish. Prov 2:22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.”

If it was his 'plan' that people act wickedly, then why is he determined to destroy such wicked ones? Even his adversary the Devil is soon to be destroyed. Obviously they are not part of his plan.
Which is exactly why I think the general Christian concept of God makes no sense whatsoever. If he's determined to destroy "wicked ones", why doesn't he? Is he not all powerful? Why would an all-powerful being have to "plead" with anything? In fact, why would an all-powerful being even WANT anything to begin with? If God knows everything and is all-powerful, then how can anything NOT be a part of God's plan?

I'm sorry, but the concept of a benevolent, omnipotent, omnipresent God just doesn't make any kind of sense whatsoever.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Which is exactly why I think the general Christian concept of God makes no sense whatsoever. If he's determined to destroy "wicked ones", why doesn't he? Is he not all powerful? Why would an all-powerful being have to "plead" with anything? In fact, why would an all-powerful being even WANT anything to begin with? If God knows everything and is all-powerful, then how can anything NOT be a part of God's plan?

I'm sorry, but the concept of a benevolent, omnipotent, omnipresent God just doesn't make any kind of sense whatsoever.

being all powerful doesnt mean going about in a rage displaying that power

He is a God of order, justice, wisdom... he doesnt go about flogging every incident he doesnt agree with. He has vowed to act at the proper time and in the proper way. He has even given mankind the information they need to know what they need to do to make things right with him and he has given them the information to know when the time is at hand.

All things will happen at Gods 'appointed' time and in his 'appointed' way.
 

Shermana

Heretic
]

do you realize Jesus is rebuking that man? Jesus is saying you will die for the sword, not for God. Jesus' followers should not die for the sword. my goodness.

His followers should die for Jesus, not for the sword.

So when Jesus says "Those" or "Anyone", he is only rebuking those who take the sword without being provoked? Elaborate what you're trying to say, are you saying that the rebuke only applies to the context of wielding a sword in a situation where it's not called for? What was the point of his rebuke? Are you saying that everyone who has ever wielded a weapon in self defense or because they were in the army "dies for the sword"?

You also casually avoided my question on if you would stand idly by if someone broke into your house with intent to assault your family members. I would have to take it that your answer would be "Yes, I'd stand idly by while he viciously ravaged my family members" if you ignore this question again.

Do you have a single link or commentary that agrees with your interpretation of "Die for the sword"? And what does that even mean? Because numerous war veterans have not died for the sake of war, or by war.
 
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averageJOE

zombie
We will be judged when the time comes by God.

Yes, we will be destroyed by Him if we are killers and murders and everyone who are wicked doers who are not in God's will.

PS: I am not saying we will be burned and tortured forever.
That would be a double standard. Denial of this double standard doesn't make it non-existant.

It's also a bit hypocritical for Jesus to say never fight or kill, but it is perfectly OK for god to. In fact, it's hypocritical to say it's perfectly OK for god to use a military to kill innocent babies.

1 Samuel 15:
Samuel also said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over His people, over Israel. Now therefore, heed the voice of the words of the Lord. 2 Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
4 So Saul gathered the people together and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand men of Judah. 5 And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and lay in wait in the valley.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I believe man is not under the law any longer and is saved by grace. There was only one perfect man who walked the earth and his name was Jesus IMHO.

I believe your salvation is not dependant on leading a perfect life. Taking up the sword is no different than having an impure thought IMHO.

Taking up the sword to protect your family is much different than living by the sword.

Having an impure thought is different from whore mongering.

I don't believe there is greater and lessor sin. We all sin and fall short of Gods glory which is why there is a need for grace in the first place to achieve salvation.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Now, I am going to ask a question and if the OP is serious about having a debate about participating in the military, I expect an answer.

Jesus said give unto Ceasar what is his. Back in the early 70's I was drafted. Am I forgiven or will I be burning in hell?
 

Meshak

Active Member
Now, I am going to ask a question and if the OP is serious about having a debate about participating in the military, I expect an answer.

Jesus says His followers are not of this world; military is of this world, they have no business butting into the political matters.

Jesus said give unto Ceasar what is his. Back in the early 70's I was drafted. Am I forgiven or will I be burning in hell?

Yes, everyone owe tax to the government even Christians because we use public facility.

Just remember, this topic is about "christians" in the military.
 

Meshak

Active Member
That would be a double standard. Denial of this double standard doesn't make it non-existant.

It's also a bit hypocritical for Jesus to say never fight or kill, but it is perfectly OK for god to. In fact, it's hypocritical to say it's perfectly OK for god to use a military to kill innocent babies.

1 Samuel 15:
Samuel also said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over His people, over Israel. Now therefore, heed the voice of the words of the Lord. 2 Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
4 So Saul gathered the people together and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand men of Judah. 5 And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and lay in wait in the valley.

True Christians dont practice Judaism. They follow Jesus and His law, not OT practice. I repeat, Jesus corrected many of OT law and practice.
 

Shermana

Heretic
True Christians dont practice Judaism. They follow Jesus and His law, not OT practice. I repeat, Jesus corrected many of OT law and practice.

Uh huh. And what's your take on Matthew 5:19? Now if by "Judaism" you mean "Rabbinicism", that's a different story.

Perhaps this is for another thread though. I have plenty on the subject.

What Jesus was correcting, I repeat, was Pharisee misrepresentations of the law, he was explaining what Moses originally meant. He was not correcting what God originally taught. If Jesus outright negated what was originally taught, he'd be ripe for fresh rocks to the skull. In other words, he was correcting deviations from the original interpretation. He wasn't really changing anything, he was explaining what was meant to be followed from the start.

"True" Christians obey the commandments, the way that Jesus taught them.
 
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Meshak

Active Member
Uh huh. And what's your take on Matthew 5:19?
Matthew 5:19
New International Version (NIV)
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
This verse is not saying anything against my claim.[/quote]

blessings.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
being all powerful doesnt mean going about in a rage displaying that power

He is a God of order, justice, wisdom... he doesnt go about flogging every incident he doesnt agree with. He has vowed to act at the proper time and in the proper way. He has even given mankind the information they need to know what they need to do to make things right with him and he has given them the information to know when the time is at hand.

All things will happen at Gods 'appointed' time and in his 'appointed' way.

So therefore nothing can happen outside of your God's will. You've just contradicted what you said earlier.
 

Meshak

Active Member
So therefore nothing can happen outside of your God's will. You've just contradicted what you said earlier.

I knew you were preparing to say that. That's why I said your question is trick question.

You dont seem to be interested in what Jesus has to say about the violence; just arguing for arguments sake.

Remember this thread is about "Christians" in the military.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I knew you were preparing to say that. That's why I said your question is trick question.
In what way is it a trick question? Pegg said earlier that not everything happens according to God's will, and now they've made a statement which directly contradicts that. I've not tricked anyone.

You dont seem to be interested in what Jesus has to say about the violence; just arguing for arguments sake.

Remember this thread is about "Christians" in the military.
Why are you so evasive about such a simple question?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I just dont throw pearl to the pigs.
And now you're insulting me. I've done nothing to you but ask a simple yes or no question for the purposes of making you elaborate on your point.

I am not saying you are a pig.
You just did.

This is Jesus' word and His servants wont argue meaninglessly about His word (pearl).
If you're not willing to answer such a simple, direct question about the nature of the God you believe in, then perhaps your belief in Jesus' word isn't as strong as you're trying to make it out to be. I may have contested Pegg's answer, but at least they answered the question. Why is it so beneath you to do so? Is your belief so weak that it cannot withstand a simple question?
 

Meshak

Active Member
And now you're insulting me. I've done nothing to you but ask a simple yes or no question for the purposes of making you elaborate on your point.


You just did.


If you're not willing to answer such a simple, direct question about the nature of the God you believe in, then perhaps your belief in Jesus' word isn't as strong as you're trying to make it out to be. I may have contested Pegg's answer, but at least they answered the question. Why is it so beneath you to do so? Is your belief so weak that it cannot withstand a simple question?

I am done bickering exchange, It is not of Jesus.

good day.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I knew you were preparing to say that. That's why I said your question is trick question.

You dont seem to be interested in what Jesus has to say about the violence; just arguing for arguments sake.

Remember this thread is about "Christians" in the military.
FinalIronyMeter.gif
 

averageJOE

zombie
True Christians dont practice Judaism. They follow Jesus and His law, not OT practice. I repeat, Jesus corrected many of OT law and practice.
More denial.

This does not change the fact that according to your bible god himself used the services of a military.
 
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