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Christians in the military

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Meshak, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    It is allowed in the most Christian community in USA.

    Jesus says to "love your enemy", yet they come up with all kinds of excuses to justify this sinful practice by the churches. we dont love anyone by killing or destroying the country. It is that simple.

    Here is what Jesus has to say:Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)

    27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
    28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
    29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
    30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
    31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
    32For if ye love them which love you what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
    34And if ye to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
    35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
    36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Fatheralso is merciful.

    and some more:

    Matthew 26:52
    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

    Matthew 5:9
    Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

    And His faithful disciple harmonize with Jesus' word:

    For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 corinthian 10:4-5)

    Romans 12:17-21
    17Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    II Corinthians 10:3,4
    "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds."

    Ephesians 6:12
    "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."


    PS: I hope I am allowed to speak against Christians practice military using Jesus' name.

    I have been banned most forums because of my anti-mainstream convictions. My staying the same forum is 6 months average.

    blessings
     
    #1 Meshak, Feb 27, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  2. sandandfoam

    sandandfoam Veteran Member

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    Tolstoy held the same view, I hardly think it's that controversial.
    Looking forward to your banning already seems pessimistic.
     
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  3. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    It is very controversial for mainstream churches. They get all upset. I always get gang attacked by this topic and hardly none to support my position.

    Jesus' pacifist position is very clear. There is no excuse or loopholes in His word.

    blessings.
     
    #3 Meshak, Feb 27, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  4. sandandfoam

    sandandfoam Veteran Member

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    Well good luck with your time here. I wholly agree with your understanding.
     
  5. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    True Christianity wont allow His followers in the military. What they are doing is misrepresenting Jesus.

    blessings
     
  6. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Some Christian denominations do not allow their members to fight at all.

    Whilst the 10 commandments include not killing, Jesus seems to have accepted that soldiers existed and never spoke out against them.
    However there is no doubt that he strongly preferred peace over war, and that he taught this to his disciples.

    It is perhaps possible to love ones enemies, whilst still being in a position of having to fight them.

    Jesus himself said we owe some things to our leaders and others to God.
     
  7. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    I understand that. They are very few.

    Jesus never condone killing or any kind of violence. Pleas read the OP.

    We cannot love anyone by killing or fighting physically. Please read the OP.

    this has nothing to do with tolerating violence.

    Pro-military churches claim Jesus is not pacifist by quoting the Revelation of Jesus' role. But that is absurd, Jesus will judge all of us when the time comes. In the mean time, His followers have responsibility to show Jesus' love to the world, not by engaging in the wars like the rest of the world.

    Jesus says His followers are not of this world. His followers are salt and light of the world. We cannot be salt and light by fighting at the war.
     
  8. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    The miliary Christians get great support frum the non-believers too because USA is military country.
     
  9. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    Jesus did say sell your cloack and buy a sword

    Why? I have no idea.
     
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  10. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    I dont know why He said that. But Jesus did not mean to protect themselves because He does not contradict Himself. Pleas read the OP.

    blessings.
     
  11. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    At contrair, he frequently contradicts himself.
     
  12. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    How? would you elaborate?
     
  13. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    For example




    “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid (John 8:14)

    “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. (John 5:31)

    The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.
    (John 7:7)

    If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. (John 15:19)


    Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)

    My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. (John 15:12)



    "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

    Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. (John 14:27)



    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)

    I have come to bring fire on the earth, (Luke 12:49)


    Honour thy father and [thy] mother: (Matthew 19:19)


    For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother (Matthew 10:35)


    "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") Mark 7:18

    Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (Matthew 15:11)


    And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you. (Leviticus 11:7-8)

    Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)




    These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. (Matthew 10:5)

    "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
    (Matthew 15:24)


    I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her." (Matthew 26:13)

    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19

    "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. (Matthew 10:5)



    Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.

    There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (John 4:5-7)


    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)

    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. (Luke 22:36)





    But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (Matthew 5:22)

    Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (Matthew 26:52)


    …"for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. (KJV)






    You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? (Matthew 23:17)

    Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? (Matthew 23:19, KJV)





    Honour thy father and [thy] mother: (Matthew 19:19)


    Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (John 2:4)


    And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them, Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: (Mark 9:36-37)


    And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. (Revelations 2:23)

    But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (Matthew 5:44)

    But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, (Luke 6:27)

    But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me. (Luke 19:27)

    But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." (NIV)


    That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none. (John 18:9)


    While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (John 17:12)


    But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. (Matthew 10:33)


    But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. (Luke 12:9)


    "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "today—yes, tonight—before the rooster crows twice you yourself will disown me three times." (Mark 14:30)

    Immediately a rooster crowed. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly. (Matthew 26:75)


    The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. (Matthew 26:24)

    * If Judas betrayed Jesus, then he cannot sit on the throne!

    That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:3)

    And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:28)


    In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)


    TAKE CARE not to do your good deeds publicly or before men, in order to be seen by them; otherwise you will have no reward reserved for and awaiting you] with and from your Father Who is in heaven. (Matthew 6:1, Amplified Bible)


    This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    (Matthew 13:49)


    Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. (Matthew 21:31)


    Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:3)





    Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:10)


    "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    (Matthew 7:13-14)

    Everyone will be salted with fire. (Mark 9:49)



    I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matthew 11:11)

    Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (KJV)


    I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire: (Matthew 3:11, KJV)

    "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. (NIV)

    But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." (Matthew 17:12)

    * Jesus said John the Baptist is Elijah.


    They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No." (John 1:21)


    * Yet John denies being Elijah!

    He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. (Matthew 12:39)





    "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. (John 13:13)



    He sighed deeply and said, "Why does this generation ask for a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, no sign will be given to it." (Mark 8:12)





    "I do not accept praise from men, (John 5:41)

    They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' " (Matthew 15:9, Mark 7:7)


    No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. (John 10:18)

    * Jesus claims having the power to raise himself


    The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (Acts 5:30)



    * It was God who raised Jesus, he didn’t have the power to raise himself
     
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  14. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    Me,

    You listed up too many, I can explain all of them but it is time consuming. Please pick some what is most contradiction to you.

    Jesus does not contradict Himself, if He does, I will not be His follower or servant..

    blessings.
     
  15. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    You seem to have ignored a few verses:
    Interesting how you ignore the "Armor of God" reading of Ephesians 6:10-20...
    not to mention Paul's "fellow soldier" Epaphroditus in Philippians 2:25...

    Seems to me your little rant is nothing more than a cherry picking in an attempt to justify your bias.
     
  16. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    He says. Anone who says "you fool"to others is in danger of hell, and he himself said that more than once.

    Then again, it could mean he was always in danger of hell.

    In any case there are ma contradictions, most people that read e bible with eir eyes opened will see that.
     
  17. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    His followers are all God's soldiers, they fight against satan because satan tries us to be unfaithful to Jesus.

    Sorry, you dont seem to know Jesus will not tolerate His followers to be violent.

    Read the OP. Please dont ignore what Jesus says about love one another and love your enemy.

    Jesus' true followers dont get involved with any kind of violence.

    PS, my OP is not rant or my word, it is all in the NT. Look them up please.

    blessings.
     
  18. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    Where? reference? Please copy and paste.

    blessings.
     
  19. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    You have not shown this statement to be true.


    I have read the OP.
    But unfortunately for you, I have also the rest of the Bible...

    Interesting how you still flat out ignore verses even when presented to you....
     
  20. Meshak

    Meshak Active Member

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    sorry you you cannot see what Jesus want you to do as His follower, if you are.

    I dont ignore, I interpret contextually with what Jesus says. Your interpretation does not harmonize with Jesus' word which I quoted in the OP.
     
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