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Featured Christians. Heaven and hell

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    First, I do not believe children are sinners because of their parents. Second, you must understand the meaning of "hell". There are two hells. All humans go to the first hell, which is the grave. Then those who refuse to obey God will go to the second hell where they will be burned up, destroyed. It has nothing to do with how I feel.
     
  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Why would God have need to keep children alive if he can read their hearts and know what they will turn out to be?
    In Isaiah 46:10 God says.... "From the beginning I foretell the outcome,
    And from long ago the things that have not yet been done."

    There can be no injustice with one who is all knowing. This is why we trust our God implicitly. He does not make mistakes....and he tells us what his intentions are, and why he does what he does, the way that he does it. The long term benefit is always at the fore. The end always justifies the means.

    Let me ask you....if you come upon a nest of very venomous spiders in your home, would you kill just the parents and spare the babies because they can't kill you yet? o_O Will those babies grow up to be just like their parents? I don't know if you've noticed, but today's children seem to have very little empathy unless it is instilled by loving and empathetic parents. Sad to say too many children are raised by parents who mirror their own poor role modeling. It can be perpetuated over many generations. Drug addicted children are often the progeny of drug addicted parents. Alcoholic children repeat the habits of their alcoholic parents. Kids who see violence at home will often carry it over into the school yard and feed it with violent video games.

    When this world goes down, as we believe it will in the not too distant future, only those who have bothered to search for the true God on his terms, and who are willing to change their ways, will find him. Those who want God to fit their terms will be very disappointed. :(
     
    #62 Deeje, Jan 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  3. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Are you meaning to say that we should see everyone, including children as naturally fallen and excluded from God, defacto?

    That is an interesting perspective, seeing the whole lot of us as created for damnation, in essence more or less. We're doomed the second we are come into this world. We are born to go the hell, unless we are able to find a way to escape this escalator to hell.

    I can see that as a perspective upon the whole, to speak of things like the hardships and darkness and suffering of the world. But it has a certain dark tone to it as a perspective on life. What about Joy? That is abundant within the world. We are born to that, not hell. What we end up doing with our lives may lead us to lose that Joy, to end up in hell, or that state of isolation, separation, and fear.

    But that is not what a child's nature is. That's not what we are born with. That is what we acquire. That is why I believe Jesus said you must be as a little child in order to see the kingdom of God. A child does. They are not in hell. And that is not their natures.
     
  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I don’t believe anyone deserves hell.
     
  5. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    My apologies.
    I meant the first post to this tangent:

    Except that god DOES in fact punish children for the sins of their parents.
    clear up to TEN GENERATIONS of children:


    Your initial reply was to divert and then you have kept going the diversion route.
    So I am wondering if you are ever going to actually address the fact that god does punish children for their parents sins.
     
  6. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    So I ask again. What does "not enter the congregation" mean?
     
  7. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Insanely gross generalisation here. In fact society seems more empathetic now, which is why students are at the forefront of movements such as BLM, LGBT, "Me too" and Veganism, both a result of societies increase in empathy for the most part. People of the past were more tribalistic and more prejudiced as a whole, because if they weren't, then these movements wouldn't exist. Compare this to the 1800's in which people were extremely bigoted, as shown by history and books and novels of the era.

    People can react either positively or negatively to bad influence. Children are not a product of their parents only, but also their life experiences and how they respond to them. Which is why children raised by bad parents often do not become like their parents.
     
  8. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    perhaps ya just have a bad concept of what hell is. its always been described as a place of torment of a dead person. the true torment is not to the dead but to the person that knows they are going to die . you dont want to did . i dont want to die . the thought that one day ya will no longer be a living person is so appalling that people refuses to believe it really happens.
     
  9. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

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    The surviving Adam and Eve narratives were not well understood. Hell is a fictional invention of the shamans, of evolved religion.

    Jesus taught either life eternal of death. The term "hell" attached to Jesus teachings is a translation from original concepts of "death".
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Hell in the OP means eternal separation from god. The point is the same regardless if it was grave, fire, etc.
     
  11. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

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    Those who don't want to survive are annihilated, they don't exist, there is no "consciousness" of separation. There is not separateness as an entity or identity. "Their place is found no more."
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Do you believe in inherited sin?

    So children go to heaven by virtue of age?

    The question is more would you kill the baby because of how their parents were born? (Genetic genocide)

    Not sure how today's society US is most likely different than were you're from) has to do with theological question.
     
  13. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    The Bible has many verses that children go to Heaven, sure.

    You may either, biblically speaking, trust Jesus for eternal life--He perfects you when you meet Him so you are eligible to live in a utopia/morally perfect, or reject Him, yes.

    Can being a Christian for a thousand years make me morally perfect? Of course not, I have a propensity to good sometimes and do evil at other times.
     
  14. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

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    Certainly God makes provision for children and infants in the resurrection to be raised.
     
  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    They are saved because they haven't sinned yet?

    Do you believe in inherited sin?
     
  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe all who will come will be received.
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you are correct. Hell was not made simply for sinners but for those who did not decide to receive eternal life.
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I do not believe all humans deserve Hell. As a previous person said the wages of sin is death.
     
  19. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Children as well?
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    If person is righteous, he will get eternal life as a gift, according to the Bible. And by what the Bible tells, even people who have not heard of Jesus can be counted righteous by this:

    For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
    Romans 2:12-16
     
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