Christians: do you watch the Handmaid’s Tale?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If so, what do you think of if?

To me, it seems that it’s intended as a commentary on the religious right and a cautionary tale about where we could end up if we continue on our current path. What’s your take on it?

Do you think that as a commentary, it’s fair? Why or why not?

Do you think that dystopian future it shows is one that your religion would be compatible with? If not, what safeguards do you see in your religion that would stop it from happening?

Overall, what do you think of how the show portrays Christians?

 

[Vouthon]

I didn't get a chance to watch the TV adaption but I am familiar with Margaret Atwood's novel and consider it to be a perennially relevant, cautionary tale about the perils of religious fanaticism (if allowed to dominate politics). I thought it was a masterpiece.

The dystopian and sexually oppressive theocracy depicted in the book is an exaggerative illustration of what dominion theology could amount to if brought to its logical conclusions, without restraints. It certainly makes me shudder just a little more every time I hear about a new "In God We Trust" bill passing through a U.S. state legislature or god forbid at the federal level.

But in the West, even with the dismaying spectacle of Trumpism, I reckon we are still far away from Gilead.

However, there is an anti-feminist, patriarchal "perversion" (in my opinion) of Christianity being fostered in Putin's Russia with government backing, which bears freakishly uncanny similarities to the fictional Gilead. Just before the World Cup aired, a Scottish comedian named Frankie Boyle took a trip to Russia where he got into a discussion with a number of young Russians, both male and female, who were Orthodox Christians (like the majority of Russians today) and had imbibed an unhealthy dose of Putinism i.e.

BBC Two

Chilling, no? Even worse were the findings in this other recent BBC Panorama documentary:

David Dimbleby on a Russia in crisis and the holes in President Putin’s defence

It shows how a hyper-masculinized, hyper-militarized, hyper-nationalistic caricature of Orthodox Christianity has become the new ideology in the country and is even more popular among under-25s than it is the older generations.

The future looks like it really could be close to 'The Handmaid's Tale' in Russia within a few years. I have even read credible reports that the higher echelons in the Kremlin are seriously considering giving the hierarchy of the Orthodox Church an official ROLE in the executive or legislature, thereby amalgamating church and state - like a Christian version of the Islamic Republic of Iran with its ayatollahs.

Ahem.

So, who knows, Atwood may prove even more prescient.

 

[crossfire]

I didn't get a chance to watch the TV adaption but I am familiar with Margaret Atwood's novel and consider it to be a perennially relevant, cautionary tale about the perils of religious fanaticism (if allowed to dominate politics). I thought it was a masterpiece.

The dystopian and sexually oppressive theocracy depicted in the book is an exaggerative illustration of what dominion theology could amount to if brought to its logical conclusions, without restraints. It certainly makes me shudder just a little more every time I hear about a new "In God We Trust" bill passing through a U.S. state legislature or god forbid at the federal level.

But in the West, even with the disgusting spectacle of Trumpism, I reckon we are still far away from Gilead.

However, there is an anti-feminist, patriarchal "perversion" (in my opinion) of Christianity being fostered in Putin's Russia with government backing, which bears freakishly uncanny similarities to the fictional Gilead. Just before the World Cup aired, a Scottish comedian named Frankie Boyle took a trip to Russia where he got into a discussion with a number of young Russians, both male and female, who were Orthodox Christians (like the majority of Russians today) and had imbibed an unhealthy dose of Putinism i.e.

Do we need to summon up Kali the demon slayer yet? O.O

 

[Vouthon]

Do we need to summon up Kali the demon slayer yet? O.O

Well, our answer to the goddess Kali would be St. Michael the Archangel:


Saint Michael in the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

In Roman Catholicism Saint Michael has four distinct roles. First, he is the Enemy of Satan and the fallen angels. He defeated Satan and ejected him from Paradise and will achieve victory at the hour of the final battle with Satan.

Secondly, he is the Christian angel of death: at the hour of death, Saint Michael descends and gives each soul the chance to redeem itself before passing. Saint Michael's third role is weighing souls (hence the saint is often depicted holding scales) on Judgment Day. And finally, Saint Michael is the Guardian of the Church.[7]...

Saint Michael is the traditional prototype of the spiritual warrior, a paradigm extended to other warrior saints. This conflict against evil may at times be viewed as an interior battle...

Pope Leo XIII added a Prayer to Saint Michaelto the Leonine Prayers in 1886.[30] Although these prayers are no longer recited after Mass, as they were until 1964, Pope John Paul II encouraged the Catholic faithful to continue to pray it, saying: "I ask everyone not to forget it and to recite it to obtain help in the battle against forces of darkness."[31]
​

But yes, the forces of evil are rising and need to be intellectually/morally exorcised from the hearts of susceptible Christians.

 

[74x12]

If so, what do you think of if?

To me, it seems that it’s intended as a commentary on the religious right and a cautionary tale about where we could end up if we continue on our current path. What’s your take on it?

Do you think that as a commentary, it’s fair? Why or why not?

Do you think that dystopian future it shows is one that your religion would be compatible with? If not, what safeguards do you see in your religion that would stop it from happening?

Overall, what do you think of how the show portrays Christians?

Try making a film like that targeting Jews or Muslims. You won't be allowed. It's anti-Christian propaganda.

 

[Vouthon]

Try making a film like that targeting Jews or Muslims. You won't be allowed. It's anti-Christian propaganda.

It's already been done:

The Breadwinner

The film and the novel its adapted from are about a young woman supporting her family under the the theoctatic terror of Taliban rule in Kabu.

And critics don't accuse it of being Islamophobic, just like the Handmaid's Tale isn't Christianophobic.

 

[74x12]

It's already been done:

The Breadwinner

The film and the novel its adapted from are about a young woman supporting her family under the the theoctatic terror of Taliban rule in Kabu.

And critics don't accuse it of being Islamophobic, just like the Handmaid's Tale isn't Christianophobic.

That's because it's about the Taliban. It's almost a documentary. The Taliban is real history.
The Handmaid's tale is garbage and anti-Christian, anti-America.

 

[Katzpur]

If so, what do you think of if?

I count the minutes between episodes. I think about it constantly. I love, love, love it!

To me, it seems that it’s intended as a commentary on the religious right and a cautionary tale about where we could end up if we continue on our current path. What’s your take on it?

More or less the same as yours.

Do you think that as a commentary, it’s fair? Why or why not?

I doubt it would ever happen, simply because I think there are still too many sane people left.

Do you think that dystopian future it shows is one that your religion would be compatible with?

No way.

If not, what safeguards do you see in your religion that would stop it from happening?

Even though we're a pretty conservative religion, we do stress "agency" (known to most people as "free will"). We may have what most people see as an overly-rigid code of conduct, we don't believe anyone should be forced to comply with it.

Overall, what do you think of how the show portrays Christians?

I don't even really see these people as Christians. They may quote from the Bible a lot, but quoting from the Bible doesn't make a person a Christian.

 

[Vouthon]

That's because it's about the Taliban. It's almost a documentary. The Taliban is real history.
The Handmaid's tale is garbage and anti-Christian, anti-America.

No, the Handmaid's Tale is a literary work denouncing theonomic strains in fundamentalist religious thought, which seek to impose divine law - whether 'biblical' Old Testament law, Shariah, the Indic Manusmirti etc. - onto wider society. She uses a fictional theocratic Christian state ("Gilead") as a sort of parable for the examination of this theme.

Worldwide, the vast majority of Christians are not dominionists - so how on earth can one view the novel/TV series as anti-Christian?

The Taliban are obviously real but while it is inspired by actual events the story is still fictional:


The Breadwinner.

The movie doesn’t shy away from depicting the repressive rule of the Taleban, including a scene where Parvana’s mother is beaten, off-screen but audible, for going out in public and possessing a photograph of her imprisoned husband.

Those moments are juxtaposed with a story Parvana tells in pieces over the course of the film, first to her baby brother, then to Shauzia, and eventually to herself, about a young boy who goes to challenge the elephant king who has stolen all of the seeds from his village, threatening the villagers with starvation if they can’t plant their spring crops.

The tale is fanciful and magical, providing a hopeful metaphor for the Afghan people suffering under the tyranny of a misogynistic theocracy, but also giving us a subtler way to answer the mystery surrounding the death of Parvana’s brother​

 

[Audie]

That's because it's about the Taliban. It's almost a documentary. The Taliban is real history.
The Handmaid's tale is garbage and anti-Christian, anti-America.

Maybe not everyone shares your view of what "America"
is, or should be.

Christian zealots from Europe figured prominently in
the invasion and occupation of this land.

Now they are finding that, like the unfortunate
people who fell before the onslaught, that they
lack the capacity to hold it.

A detail that the French might call tres amusant is
that the religion that brought them here and that they
hold so freakin' precious is now undermining them and
hastening their fall.

Note the Christian component in your
sanctuary cities.

Even more fun: the fanatical anti intellectualism
of so much of American christianity. Look at
the gross ignorance of the floodies and the
other creationists.

Its a mean world out there, really a lot of people
of the black hair brown eye non Christian sort
that will take it all away from you.

There's no national park to provide refuge for
endangered non competitive cultures, no
Angel with flaming sword at the gates of
the trailer park.

 

[David T]

I didn't get a chance to watch the TV adaption but I am familiar with Margaret Atwood's novel and consider it to be a perennially relevant, cautionary tale about the perils of religious fanaticism (if allowed to dominate politics). I thought it was a masterpiece.

The dystopian and sexually oppressive theocracy depicted in the book is an exaggerative illustration of what dominion theology could amount to if brought to its logical conclusions, without restraints. It certainly makes me shudder just a little more every time I hear about a new "In God We Trust" bill passing through a U.S. state legislature or god forbid at the federal level.

But in the West, even with the disgusting spectacle of Trumpism, I reckon we are still far away from Gilead.

However, there is an anti-feminist, patriarchal "perversion" (in my opinion) of Christianity being fostered in Putin's Russia with government backing, which bears freakishly uncanny similarities to the fictional Gilead. Just before the World Cup aired, a Scottish comedian named Frankie Boyle took a trip to Russia where he got into a discussion with a number of young Russians, both male and female, who were Orthodox Christians (like the majority of Russians today) and had imbibed an unhealthy dose of Putinism i.e.

BBC Two

Chilling, no? Even worse were the findings in this other recent BBC Panorama documentary:

David Dimbleby on a Russia in crisis and the holes in President Putin’s defence

It shows how a hyper-masculinized, hyper-militarized, hyper-nationalistic caricature of Orthodox Christianity has become the new ideology in the country and is even more popular among under-25s than it is the older generations.

The future looks like it really could be close to 'The Handmaid's Tale' in Russia within a few years. I have even read credible reports that the higher echelons in the Kremlin are seriously considering giving the hierarchy of the Orthodox Church an official ROLE in the executive or legislature, thereby amalgamating church and state - like a Christian version of the Islamic Republic of Iran with its ayatollahs.

Ahem.

So, who knows, Atwood may prove even more prescient.

An insane person or society always always first and foremost disconnects from the simple act to breathe. The internal noise drowns out everything. Tolkien alludes to this by using a ring as a symbol.. The will to power always becomes the destructive even if it was meant as a positive. Our stories all reflect this and we ignore it.

 

[Audie]

Worldwide, the vast majority of Christians are not dominionists - so how on earth can one view the novel/TV series as anti-Christian?

Christiand are no better than moslims at cleaning
up their ranks of even the most despicable.

Instead chiristians see an attack from outside( even when
there isnt one) as an attack on all.

 

[Vouthon]

Christiand are no better than moslims at cleaning
up their ranks of even the most despicable.

Instead chiristians see an attack from outside( even when
there isnt one) as an attack on all.

I would say that you are excessively generalizing here.

Even in this very thread, two out of the three Christians who have thus far contributed (myself and @Katzpur) are fans of the book/TV show.

 

[Audie]

I would say that you are excessively generalizing here.

Even in this very thread, two out of the three Christians who have thus far contributed (myself and @Katzpur) are fans of the book/TV show.

Very true; but what comes of it?

Hope btw, nobody would think I am
"Anti -Christian".

 

[74x12]

No, the Handmaid's Tale is a literary work denouncing theonomic strains in fundamentalist religious thought, which seek to impose divine law - whether 'biblical' Old Testament law, Shariah, the Indic Manusmirti etc. - onto wider society. She uses a fictional theocratic Christian state ("Gilead") as a sort of parable for the examination of this theme.

Worldwide, the vast majority of Christians are not dominionists - so how on earth can one view the novel/TV series as anti-Christian?

The Taliban are obviously real but while it is inspired by actual events the story is still fictional:


The Breadwinner.

The movie doesn’t shy away from depicting the repressive rule of the Taleban, including a scene where Parvana’s mother is beaten, off-screen but audible, for going out in public and possessing a photograph of her imprisoned husband.

Those moments are juxtaposed with a story Parvana tells in pieces over the course of the film, first to her baby brother, then to Shauzia, and eventually to herself, about a young boy who goes to challenge the elephant king who has stolen all of the seeds from his village, threatening the villagers with starvation if they can’t plant their spring crops.

The tale is fanciful and magical, providing a hopeful metaphor for the Afghan people suffering under the tyranny of a misogynistic theocracy, but also giving us a subtler way to answer the mystery surrounding the death of Parvana’s brother​

So you're targeting a particular subset of American Christians that you disagree with. At least you admit it. It's still propaganda and I'm not stupid enough not to notice. It's effect is to slander many American Christians. You obviously have no idea how the world really works or the nature of propaganda.

Maybe not everyone shares your view of what "America"
is, or should be.

Christian zealots from Europe figured prominently in
the invasion and occupation of this land.

Now they are finding that, like the unfortunate
people who fell before the onslaught, that they
lack the capacity to hold it.

A detail that the French might call tres amusant is
that the religion that brought them here and that they
hold so freakin' precious is now undermining them and
hastening their fall.

Note the Christian component in your
sanctuary cities.

Even more fun: the fanatical anti intellectualism
of so much of American christianity. Look at
the gross ignorance of the floodies and the
other creationists.

Its a mean world out there, really a lot of people
of the black hair brown eye non Christian sort
that will take it all away from you.

There's no national park to provide refuge for
endangered non competitive cultures, no
Angel with flaming sword at the gates of
the trailer park.

Is that supposed to be poetic or something? You don't understand (even in a small way) what you're talking about. It looks like you've been buying into the propaganda for a long time.

 

[Vouthon]

So you're targeting a particular subset of American Christians that you disagree with. At least you admit it. It's still propaganda and I'm not stupid enough not to notice. It's effect is to slander many American Christians. You obviously have no idea how the world really works or the nature of propaganda.

No, not targeting a subset of American Christian believers - its targeting a certain theology held by that subset and those of other religions with a theonomic attitude to their scriptures.

Hence why its set in a fictional society rather than in the actual Bible Belt in a church with a pastor preaching dominionist ideas from the pulpit.

 

[Audie]

So you're targeting a particular subset of American Christians that you disagree with. At least you admit it. It's still propaganda and I'm not stupid enough not to notice. It's effect is to slander many American Christians. You obviously have no idea how the world really works or the nature of propaganda.

Is that supposed to be poetic or something? You don't understand (even in a small way) what you're talking about. It looks like you've been buying into the propaganda for a long time.

Au contraire, 'tis thee doused in the propaganda
of your middle eastern sky god teligion, and the
myths of amrrican exceptionalism.

But keep it up; I've no reason to object to the eclipse
of "America" as run by white christian men.

So, let's forget i said anything, tho in your case
you could read it again and continue to make
strong your face against it. For now.

 

[74x12]

Au contraire, 'tis thee doused in the propaganda
of your middle eastern sky god teligion, and the
myths of amrrican exceptionalism.

But keep it up; I've no reason to object to the eclipse
of "America" as run by white christian men.

So, let's forget i said anything, tho in your case
you could read it again and continue to make
strong your face against it. For now.

Yep, you have no clue what you're talking about. And you don't know me either or my views on America or the world.

 

[Audie]

Yep, you have no clue what you're talking about. And you don't know me either or my views on America or the world.

That your views coincide with the regressive anti
intellectual chistian sort I alluded to is more than
adequately illustrated by your "flood" posts.

But hey, suture self as the Do it Yourself Dr. Kit says!

I do have a very good idea of just how many eager
smart and ambitious people there are ready to cave
white christian america up like a roast turkey.

But by all means, attack the messenger and deny it.

Im not on your side.

 

[74x12]

Suture self, as the Home Dr. Kit says.
It will work just as well as bitter clinging will.

You believe I am bitter? I can easily sense your own bitterness from the things you've said. But I have no evil thoughts toward you. My God empowers me to love you. So I do.