• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christians! Do you despise Abominations? There's only one left to hate....which?

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Jesus in Matthew did not "totally dismiss" the priesthood, he simply criticized their hypocrisy. His attitude was, "Do as they say, not as they do."

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 'The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach.' " Matthew 23

"Get it?"
Yes LC, he did dismiss the whole pack of them, just like the Baptist did.

But of course he told folks to obey the laws which the priests spouted, because he wanted them kept. The priests didn't keep them.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes LC, he did dismiss the whole pack of them, just like the Baptist did.

But of course he told folks to obey the laws which the priests spouted, because he wanted them kept. The priests didn't keep them.

I guess we have different definitions of "dismiss." Telling people to obey them because they "sit in Moses' seat" but not be hypocrites like they are is not "dismissal" IMO. Obeying what the Pharisees said includes performing sacrifices as directed in the Torah.

Then again, Matthew's version of Jesus is the most pro-Torah.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Where did you quote that verse from?
You didn't get that from Jesus, I'm guessing.

Actually, the love Apostle John got that from Jesus.

John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. (He that loveth not knoweth not God)
John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Love you enemies... why? God loves :)


Ken,
You must know the rules and laws of the NT. They are written down for you ......

I mentioned the two.... is there another you wanted to address? (LOL - remember... we all have our own beams that we should be working on)

Ken .... Jesus preached his campaign concerning the kingdom of the Jews. They were supporting the working Jews who were getting ripped off by the priesthood.

No... He preached the Kingdom of God not the kingdom of the Jews. The Jewish nation were supposed to be priests to the world.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Paul's spin, imo.

Not really...

YAHWEH-TSIDKENU [yah-way-tzid-kay-noo]: "The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 33:16) – As with YHWH-M’Kaddesh, it is God alone who provides righteousness (from the Hebrew word tsidkenu) to man, ultimately in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who became sin for us “that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him”

YAHWEH-M'KADDESH [yah-way-meh-kad-esh]: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy" (Leviticus 20:8; Ezekiel 37:28) – God makes it clear that He alone, not the law, can cleanse His people and make them holy.

Isn't it great that God wanted us so much to be part of His family and to bring His will on earth as it is in Heave that He forgives us, sanctifies us, redeems us and makes us righteous so that He can work towards us and through us to fulfill His great plan? What a beautiful gift He offers to the world.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I had eaten raw oyster with lemon BEFORE my eyes were open. :D I was blind but now I see :D
Food poisoning? :emojconfused:

BTW, about 25 years ago I ended up in the e.r. when I accidently ate undercooked mussels at a buffet. After a few hours getting back from the restaurant, I literally became paralyzed whereas I couldn't even move for about 15 minutes. When picked up by the ambulance, they told me that they had to take three other people who had eaten at that same restaurant the day before. The Michigan Health Department shut them down.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I guess we have different definitions of "dismiss." Telling people to obey them because they "sit in Moses' seat" but not be hypocrites like they are is not "dismissal" IMO. Obeying what the Pharisees said includes performing sacrifices as directed in the Torah.

LC, not all the Pharisees were Levites, nor ran the Temple.
The Temple was controlled only by Levite Priests, although some these were Pharisees.
Jesus was disgusted by the lot of them, though, as was the Baptist.

Then again, Matthew's version of Jesus is the most pro-Torah.
OK. All the gospels have valuable info imo, but I reckon that Mark's gospel gives the most accurate, most true report of all.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Jewish dietary laws (when refrigeration and antibiotics didn't exist), kept them healthy.
Yes.....that's why they existed.
And that goes for the closed couple laws.
The man/ woman only laws were for Maxim children and maxim growth and strength.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Food poisoning? :emojconfused:

BTW, about 25 years ago I ended up in the e.r. when I accidently ate undercooked mussels at a buffet. After a few hours getting back from the restaurant, I literally became paralyzed whereas I couldn't even move for about 15 minutes. When picked up by the ambulance, they told me that they had to take three other people who had eaten at that same restaurant the day before. The Michigan Health Department shut them down.
You were all very lucky.
Shellfish poison paralysis is one of the most deadly sicknesses of all.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Food poisoning? :emojconfused:

BTW, about 25 years ago I ended up in the e.r. when I accidently ate undercooked mussels at a buffet. After a few hours getting back from the restaurant, I literally became paralyzed whereas I couldn't even move for about 15 minutes. When picked up by the ambulance, they told me that they had to take three other people who had eaten at that same restaurant the day before. The Michigan Health Department shut them down.
WOW!! :fearscream:

Well, one thing you CAN thank God for.... you are alive! :)
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
LC, not all the Pharisees were Levites, nor ran the Temple.
The Temple was controlled only by Levite Priests, although some these were Pharisees.
Jesus was disgusted by the lot of them, though, as was the Baptist.

Disgusted by their hypocrisy, yes. Not by their teachings, which included the Torah's commands to perform various sacrifices.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Jesus in Matthew did not "totally dismiss" the priesthood, he simply criticized their hypocrisy. His attitude was, "Do as they say, not as they do."

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 'The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach.' " Matthew 23

"Get it?"
@oldbadger
That is absolutely correct. There is, IMV, a caveat. He is speaking directly to the Jewish nation before the New Covenant was instituted. The Law was good in many aspects, but it was incomplete as it was foretold, "a new covenant" he would make.

So we can't mix the two together. Different subjects and different time frame.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Christians! Do you despise Abominations? There only seems to be one left to abhor........ but which?

Having trawled through the laws of Moses I have collected some 'abominations'... dreadful unholy things... Not! :p

But the times have changed! There's only one left to utterly despise....... but which one? Wanna guess?

Here we go............. in order of appearance........ one abomination at a time. *shudders*


Leviticus {7:18} And if [any] of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings be eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be imputed unto him that offereth it: it shall be an abomination, and the soul that eateth of it shall bear his iniquity.

No problems! Jesus didn't support sacrifices, but in any case you could chomp away if you wanted to! We've got fridges and freezers now so you won't go to hell.

Next........!
I'd say it was spiritually significant hinting at Jesus' resurrection on the 3rd day. This could be why the sacrifice was only eaten until the 3rd day. (john 6:56)
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Actually, the love Apostle John got that from Jesus.

John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. (He that loveth not knoweth not God)
John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Love you enemies... why? God loves :)
If only Apostle John had been there, eh?
Read about the amazing experiences Disciple John had with Jesus, such as being only one of three to be with Jesus on that mountain, and see what happened, and so many others; yet Apostle John mentioned none of these....... none.
And he didn't have the first clue about when Jesus and all demonstrated in the Temple Courts and Picketed them.
No.... Apostle John wasn't there, he just had a valuable bundle of records to draw from for his gospel.

I have often asked Christian believers if they know what Jesus did during the first day of that last week in Jerusalem. They don't know. They were looking somewhere else I suppose, fixated upon John's account...... he had no clue about anything like that.

I mentioned the two.... is there another you wanted to address? (LOL - remember... we all have our own beams that we should be working on)
Yes....... 505 others, all totally essential for reducing sickness and/or building a strong secure people.
You've mentioned your beams a few times, Ken, I just wonder how you think honest debate between folks is really about chucking beams at each other in personal criticism?
What I would like to see is the majority of Christianity throwing off it's bigotry to bring Christianity forward in human freedoms. Your Christian laws ....... many many hundreds which you claim to know nothing about need to be reviewed.

No... He preached the Kingdom of God not the kingdom of the Jews. The Jewish nation were supposed to be priests to the world.
No he didn't. The real Jesus, the historical Jesus pickred up the Baptism's mission against Temple corruption and carried forward as best he could.
How much do you know about that? Have you ever seen an early 1st century Temple coin? Images of Baal on the front? Graven images on the back with Caesar's inscription thereon? And every Jew had to handle those ....? You might look in to all the disgraces that there were.

Not really...

YAHWEH-TSIDKENU [yah-way-tzid-kay-noo]: "The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 33:16) – As with YHWH-M’Kaddesh, it is God alone who provides righteousness (from the Hebrew word tsidkenu) to man, ultimately in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who became sin for us “that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him”

YAHWEH-M'KADDESH [yah-way-meh-kad-esh]: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy" (Leviticus 20:8; Ezekiel 37:28) – God makes it clear that He alone, not the law, can cleanse His people and make them holy.
Yes..... Paul repeated many verses from parts of the Old Testament, just as parts of Paul's letters found their way in to the gospels. But the historical account remained within.

Isn't it great that God wanted us so much to be part of His family and to bring His will on earth as it is in Heave that He forgives us, sanctifies us, redeems us and makes us righteous so that He can work towards us and through us to fulfill His great plan? What a beautiful gift He offers to the world.
Firstly, I am a Deist.
Secondly, any God that could possibly have been involved with humanity sure must have been the most hateful being possible. Isn't it dreadful what has happened to trillions of humans over thousands of years, eh?

But I don't blame God personally, I just think that God is too vast to even be aware of this spec of dust......... Desim.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Disgusted by their hypocrisy, yes. Not by their teachings, which included the Torah's commands to perform various sacrifices.

Those teachings, the laws of Moses, were all written down many years before the Priesthood repeated them.
Jesus loved the laws, not any Priesthood.

They were following various Roman fashions such as visiting Roman/Greek Temples, gathering wealth, cheating the working classes (there was no middle class) and steeped so deep in to hypocrisy that the Baptist and Jesus both were sick to their stomachs.

And at places like Anna's Bazaar (still named thus, long after his retirement) the people were scammed silly for coin exchanges, and their own sacrifices condemned so that they had to purchase same from Temple.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
@oldbadger
That is absolutely correct. There is, IMV, a caveat. He is speaking directly to the Jewish nation before the New Covenant was instituted. The Law was good in many aspects, but it was incomplete as it was foretold, "a new covenant" he would make.

So we can't mix the two together. Different subjects and different time frame.

Jesus thought the law (ex sacrements) was just fine. He said so. It's written down.

But he didn't want folks revolting against the priesthood until his cause was strong enough.

History is crammed full of revolutionary leaders who have appealed to the people to '#Obey them for now'.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I'd say it was spiritually significant hinting at Jesus' resurrection on the 3rd day. This could be why the sacrifice was only eaten until the 3rd day. (john 6:56)
I don't think so! :p
The sacrifice was only kept for two days because it would become very dangerous to eat after that. If you happen to be in a hot land with no fridge, just follow that law.

To break it meant sickness.
Sin led to sickness...... not to any hell.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So we have reviewed about 17 laws which if broken were described as ABOMINATIONS.

And these abominations range from eating infected food, to eating carrion fish, to hoarding silver and gold, to men laying with men, and so many other different kinds of risks that existed back then.

I can only see one that is fixed solid in our countries' legislations today and that is the law of 'Weights and Measures'. There is not much reason for any of the others in today's world, and many Christians have already pointed out that none of them are intended for Christianity which has its own Covenant.

So I've learned something......
:)
 
Last edited:

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
If only Apostle John had been there, eh?
Read about the amazing experiences Disciple John had with Jesus, such as being only one of three to be with Jesus on that mountain, and see what happened, and so many others; yet Apostle John mentioned none of these....... none.
And he didn't have the first clue about when Jesus and all demonstrated in the Temple Courts and Picketed them.
No.... Apostle John wasn't there, he just had a valuable bundle of records to draw from for his gospel.

I have often asked Christian believers if they know what Jesus did during the first day of that last week in Jerusalem. They don't know. They were looking somewhere else I suppose, fixated upon John's account...... he had no clue about anything like that.

I know this is your personal viewpoint. I also find it interesting how we want to tell the disciples what to write when each writer had his specific purpose for writing. In that they were all with Jesus, and all the gospels mention the disciple of John, why would I think the way you suggest? No... all the gospels mention that John was there amongst them.

Yes....... 505 others, all totally essential for reducing sickness and/or building a strong secure people.
You've mentioned your beams a few times, Ken, I just wonder how you think honest debate between folks is really about chucking beams at each other in personal criticism?
What I would like to see is the majority of Christianity throwing off it's bigotry to bring Christianity forward in human freedoms. Your Christian laws ....... many many hundreds which you claim to know nothing about need to be reviewed.

No... just two (the whole of what you call laws as simple applications of these two). And, yes, we all wish humanity would be better. But we are all in that process of improvement. I wouldn't say the majority of Christianity have bigotry--more like those few paint a bad picture for all. Then, of course, you have the wolves in sheep's clothing that also give the bad name but there weren't real Christians in the first place (as Jesus mentioned)

No he didn't. The real Jesus, the historical Jesus pickred up the Baptism's mission against Temple corruption and carried forward as best he could.
How much do you know about that? Have you ever seen an early 1st century Temple coin? Images of Baal on the front? Graven images on the back with Caesar's inscription thereon? And every Jew had to handle those ....? You might look in to all the disgraces that there were.

Yes... that was part of the complete and complex mission. As he said "Preach the Kingdom of God has come nigh unto you"... the Kingdom of God is more than the Temple.

Yes..... Paul repeated many verses from parts of the Old Testament, just as parts of Paul's letters found their way in to the gospels. But the historical account remained within.

But it was always in context of the NT Covenant.

Firstly, I am a Deist.
Secondly, any God that could possibly have been involved with humanity sure must have been the most hateful being possible. Isn't it dreadful what has happened to trillions of humans over thousands of years, eh?

But I don't blame God personally, I just think that God is too vast to even be aware of this spec of dust......... Desim.

I wouldn't subscribe to that train of thought. Liberty is always the best but it has its danger zones. Freedom is always the best but it has its danger zones. Free will is always the best but has its danger zones. Love is always the best but it has its danger zone..

God gave the world to mankind... let give the credit of the problems of this world to where credit is due... mankind.
 
Top