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Christians--Do Evangelicals Believe Everyone Else Going to Hell?

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
Anyone who has not accepted Christ--the Christ that fits the traditional Nicene definition--is doomed to hell. Is this your belief? Really?
 

Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
This is exactly what I was taught in the Southern Baptist churches I grew up attending. They didn't realize you don't have to create a "them" to have an "us".
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
A lot of Christians do believe that everyone else is going to "hell" but I believe that "God will save whom he chooses". With God, anything would be possible.
There is also the fact that humans couldn't truly, 100% understand the nature of God.
They use certain verses to support this but (to me), these verses are inconclusive.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
The Emerging Church Movement is an evangelical movement that has a much gentler understanding about Jesus' statements about hell. They also tend to focus on things like social justice and environmental stweardship, rather than fire and brimstone. A refreshing change that tempts me to label myself an Emerging Evangelical Episcopalian. :)
 
A lot of Christians do believe that everyone else is going to "hell" but I believe that "God will save whom he chooses". With God, anything would be possible.
There is also the fact that humans couldn't truly, 100% understand the nature of God.
They use certain verses to support this but (to me), these verses are inconclusive.

No, humans cannot fully understand the nature of God, but he made sure to tell us everything about him that we do need to know. The Bible is very clear that only those who have faith in Christ will be saved. To say that it is possible that people without faith in Christ might be saved just proves you've never read the Bible. The Bible says over and over that those who believe will be saved, and those who do not believe will be condemned. I can understand the desire to try and find other ways for people to be saved, but the Bible is very clear that there is no other way. How is lying to someone about how to be saved going to help them become saved? If there were another way to be saved then you would be able to quote some scripture proving it, instead of a strawman argument about humans being incapable of fully understanding God.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I can understand the desire to try and find other ways for people to be saved, but the Bible is very clear that there is no other way.
I believe you're guilty of that yourself. After all, you've made it clear on several occasions that you believe that a person doesn't need to have even heard of Christ in order to believe in Him. People who lived centuries before He did and in parts of the world where Hinduism, for instance, was the only religion around, just magically had a knowledge of Jesus Christ and His gospel.
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
the only problem i see with religion claiming too be the only way by which mankind may be saved is the fact that not everyone on the world will ever have a chance to hear who Jesus Christ is, due to location or how they were raised.

if a religion claims to be the only way by which mankind may be saved there has to be some kind of salvation for those who never had a chance, otherwise thier God would be a respecter of persons.
 
I believe you're guilty of that yourself. After all, you've made it clear on several occasions that you believe that a person doesn't need to have even heard of Christ in order to believe in Him. People who lived centuries before He did and in parts of the world where Hinduism, for instance, was the only religion around, just magically had a knowledge of Jesus Christ and His gospel.
You must have a bad memory then. I said people do not have to know the actual name of Jesus, they just need to know about him. What is important to understand is that God incarnated himself as a man and died on a cross to redeem his people from their sin. It doesn't matter whether you refer to him as Jesus, Joshua, Isa, Christ, or whatever, as long as you understand what he did. I also said that just because someone has never heard about Christ doesn't mean they never had a chance to hear about him. The Bible says that creation testifies about God and his power and that no one has an excuse for not knowing God. If you refuse to seek and learn about God then you have no one to blame but yourself. You can't ignore God all your life and then expect some kind of freebie because of it.

So no, I never said anyone can be saved without knowing Christ.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
You must have a bad memory then. I said people do not have to know the actual name of Jesus, they just need to know about him. What is important to understand is that God incarnated himself as a man and died on a cross to redeem his people from their sin. It doesn't matter whether you refer to him as Jesus, Joshua, Isa, Christ, or whatever, as long as you understand what he did.
You're still missing my point. People can't know about Him if they've never been told.

I also said that just because someone has never heard about Christ doesn't mean they never had a chance to hear about him. The Bible says that creation testifies about God and his power and that no one has an excuse for not knowing God.
Which God? The Christian God specifically? Or just the Abrahamic God? How about one of the Hindu gods? I would agree that creation testifies as to the existance of God. I know I can't look around me and not believe in Him. Creation does not, however, testify that Jesus Christ (by that or any other name) died on a cross to redeem mankind, and there are millions of people in the world who don't know that because they've never been told. There are millions more who died before He was born and who may have believed in God, but who know absolutely nothing about the Atonement.

If you refuse to seek and learn about God then you have no one to blame but yourself. You can't ignore God all your life and then expect some kind of freebie because of it.
I agree.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
You must have a bad memory then. I said people do not have to know the actual name of Jesus, they just need to know about him. What is important to understand is that God incarnated himself as a man and died on a cross to redeem his people from their sin. It doesn't matter whether you refer to him as Jesus, Joshua, Isa, Christ, or whatever, as long as you understand what he did. I also said that just because someone has never heard about Christ doesn't mean they never had a chance to hear about him. The Bible says that creation testifies about God and his power and that no one has an excuse for not knowing God. If you refuse to seek and learn about God then you have no one to blame but yourself. You can't ignore God all your life and then expect some kind of freebie because of it.

So no, I never said anyone can be saved without knowing Christ.
Yet, some Evangelicals believe that Mormons are going to hell because we don't worship the CORRECT Christ. (This is their reason for saying that we aren't Christians.) So if we don't have the correct version of Christ, then how can any of the other religions who might refer to him as Joshus or Isa, as you said, be saved? Aren't their versions different/incorrect also?
 
Yet, some Evangelicals believe that Mormons are going to hell because we don't worship the CORRECT Christ. (This is their reason for saying that we aren't Christians.) So if we don't have the correct version of Christ, then how can any of the other religions who might refer to him as Joshus or Isa, as you said, be saved? Aren't their versions different/incorrect also?
Read what I said. The name isn't important, understanding who Christ is and what he did is. If a Muslim converts to Christianity, but out of habit still refers to Christ as Isa, then he will still be saved because he/she has faith that Christ bore the punishment of his/her sins. Now most people who refer to Christ as Isa are Muslims, so they aren't saved, but it isn't because they call him Isa, it's because they don't trust him for their salvation.

It's also quite a predicament that Mormons are in right now. You say that you believe in the same Christ as Biblical Christians, but yet Joseph Smith's testimony about his vision stats that he was told that all current religions were wrong, that "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." (http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,104-1-3-4,00.html). Gordon B. Hinckley, your "prophet", also said these things:
“Many outside the church say we do not believe in the traditional Christ. No I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (Church News. June 20,1998 Pg 7)

As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. (http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,49-1-266-36,00.html)
Your religion's own prophets have said that they do not believe in the same Christ, and your religion is founded upon the idea that all other Christs are wrong. So to say you believe in the same Christ would be tantamount to condemning yourself as an apostate. Joseph Smith testified that in his vision that God told him that all current religions were wrong, which is the reason he used to found Mormonism. So if you believe that he actually had this vision, how can you now say that you believe in the same Christ as Biblical Christians, even excluding the vast number of contradictions between the Bible and the D&C?
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Anyone who has not accepted Christ--the Christ that fits the traditional Nicene definition--is doomed to hell. Is this your belief? Really?

Nicene defnitions aside, it's explained clearly in John 3:16-18, what the "deal" is on eternal life and condemnation.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

NKJV
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Joseph Smith testified that in his vision that God told him that all current religions were wrong, which is the reason he used to found Mormonism. So if you believe that he actually had this vision, how can you now say that you believe in the same Christ as Biblical Christians, even excluding the vast number of contradictions between the Bible and the D&C?
Okay, well since you are determined to pursue this, we don't believe that the "traditional" understanding of Christ is the same as the "biblical" understanding of Christ. We believe in the Christ of the Bible, but not the Christ of the Creeds. One other thing... Please cite the sections and verses in the D&C which you believe contradict the Bible.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
Read what I said. The name isn't important, understanding who Christ is and what he did is. If a Muslim converts to Christianity, but out of habit still refers to Christ as Isa, then he will still be saved because he/she has faith that Christ bore the punishment of his/her sins. Now most people who refer to Christ as Isa are Muslims, so they aren't saved, but it isn't because they call him Isa, it's because they don't trust him for their salvation.

It's also quite a predicament that Mormons are in right now. You say that you believe in the same Christ as Biblical Christians, but yet Joseph Smith's testimony about his vision stats that he was told that all current religions were wrong, that "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." (The Testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith). Gordon B. Hinckley, your "prophet", also said these things:
Your religion's own prophets have said that they do not believe in the same Christ, and your religion is founded upon the idea that all other Christs are wrong. So to say you believe in the same Christ would be tantamount to condemning yourself as an apostate. Joseph Smith testified that in his vision that God told him that all current religions were wrong, which is the reason he used to found Mormonism. So if you believe that he actually had this vision, how can you now say that you believe in the same Christ as Biblical Christians, even excluding the vast number of contradictions between the Bible and the D&C?
Nor did I ever say we believe in the same Christ as traditional Christians. Not in the least. The Christ of that definition totally confuses me, and makes no sense at all.

Some traditional Christians say we are damned; some say we aren't. Who is right? It seems you are allowed to vary in your beliefs between yourselves, but we are not. We do not claim to be one of you; we never have. But Christianity is very diversified, between the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans, etc., etc., till you come to Mormon theology and the variation comes to a screeching halt. Again, we do not claim to be part of traditional Christianity.

But some traditional Christians seem willing to include anyone who recognizes Christ in any vague way, by exposure to him "through creation", will be saved. This is how they explain that God is fair to all people. How can this be? Millions of people throughout history simply had no explosure to the Nicene Christ, and apparently it must be the Nicene Christ exactly, because even our version is not allowed.

So what is their fate?
 

Izdaari

Emergent Anglo-Catholic
The Emerging Church Movement is an evangelical movement that has a much gentler understanding about Jesus' statements about hell. They also tend to focus on things like social justice and environmental stweardship, rather than fire and brimstone. A refreshing change that tempts me to label myself an Emerging Evangelical Episcopalian. :)
Emerging Pentecostal here. :)

I don't think hell is a literal place, but still it's something best avoided. I know that believers won't go there, but as for the fate of others? That's up to Jesus Christ, well above my pay grade. I won't try to second-guess Him.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Emerging Pentecostal here. :)

I don't think hell is a literal place, but still it's something best avoided. I know that believers won't go there, but as for the fate of others? That's up to Jesus Christ, well above my pay grade. I won't try to second-guess Him.
What about believers who aren't followers? In other words, is belief alone sufficient or must those who talk the talk also walk the walk?
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Paul said that if you confess Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be (not could be or might be) saved.

There is of course the problem of the referent of "Jesus." I believe Katzpur is right that the LDS believers and traditional Christians believe in a different Jesus. If confessing Jesus is key to salvation (as Paul says), then either traditional Christians or LDS followers are in deep doo-doo.

Confessing Jesus is Lord also entails living the life Jesus called us to leave. Again, although there are similarities, the LDS vision and that of traditional Christianity are at variance there, too. Once again, one of these groups is in deep doo-doo.
 
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