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Featured Christians are hypocrites when they use the Old Testament to rebuke people

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Spiderman, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Agreed, when it's righteous judgment [condemn the sin not the person]. Here you condemned him to "sinner". This is "Ad Hominem Attack". "He commits sin IMHO" is better
    I think you meant Bible by `word of God`. If that is the case then I can say "I live by a different scripture AND dare call myself a Christian". Not your place to say I am not.

    Okay, I agree to disagree. No need for me also to discuss this subject any further.
     
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  2. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    My focus was on "when you are perfect" then you would "not worry" about "changing others". I agree in sharing wisdom respectfully; imposing one's faith on others is not respectful. Maybe I misinterpreted you. You wrote "changing others" and I thought you meant "evangelizing". Reading "people should stop pointing fingers", I could not agree more, esp. finger pointing by saying "Buddhism etc. is not good; you need to become Christian to get salvation". So maybe we were on the same page after all.

    1: I guess you mean that Imperialism is not good
    2: Agreed (unless it's about faith and evangelizing; that's a tricky subject, esp. on RF)
    3: Confusing. When perfect (2:) then you know who wants help. Of course they can decline. Why would decliner not leave you alone (unless you bugged him with evangelizing)
    4: Seems my first feeling was correct. You were talking about evangelizing? And twist it around? You want the right to evangelize and we can't tell you to STOP?

    It is very simple. If people do not evangelize then others will not object to evangelizing. Do not twist it around blaming others for trying to stop evangelizers bugging them.
     
  3. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    #23 Faithofchristian, Sep 26, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    It is understood that the more "devout" believers in the bible will cherry pick the OT verses that most agree with their venom to people (including other christians) who do not interpret the bible as they do.

    To me this is one of the worst aspects of Christianity and is responsible for many people abandoning their faith.
     
  5. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    PopeADope,
    According to what the Bible says, just about everything you have said is false.
    One thing, the Old Testament speaks about trying to get the future through any form of divination, from Palm Reading to Necromancy, Deuteronomy 18:10-14.
    You are completely right about Christians not obeying the Mosaic LawCovenant. After Jesus death on the afternoon of the day that Jesus instituted the New Covenant, the Old Covenant became obsolete, being Superceded by the New Covenant, Luke 22:14-20, 1Corinthians 11:23-26. Hebrews 8:6-13.
    The fact seems to be that NO gentiles were under the Mosaic Law Covenant, except the few that became proselytism, and lived as a Jew, Romans 2:14. Jews stopped being under the Mosaic Law Covenant after Jesus’ death, Romans 6:14,15. No Christians were ever under the Mosaic Law Covenant.
    There are some things that were Reiterated, and were also in the New Covenant, but the Covenants were very different, the Mosaic Law Covenant was a Law of Works, while the New Covenant was based on Faith, Romans 9:30-33. The Mosaic Covenant was written on stones, the New Covenant was written on hearts, 2Corinthians 3:1-8. Another name for the New Covenant, was The Law of Christ, Galatians 6:2. The principle was like The Golden Rule, Matthew 7:12, a Positive Law, where the Mosaic Law was a Negative Law.
    The Mosaic Law condemned to death, because no one could obey it completely, especially in this day, Galatians 3:6-14.
    Christians who have studied the Bible carefully have found that the Bible is accurate, and the many of the things spoken of in the Hebrews had their fulfillment in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The whole Bible is harmonious and tells ONE thing, God’s Purpose for mankind and the earth, which purpose cannot be stopped, Genesis 1:26-28, Isaiah 55:11.
     
  6. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    stvdv,
    To understand the Bible completely, you must remember that the full truth is very seldom contained in one place in the Bible. As said at Proverbs 2:2-5, God wants us to be willing to search for truth as you would search for silver or gold. Remember this, Scriptures complement other Scriptures, they even modify Scripture, so if you really want truth you must look up all Scripture that speaks about a subject, then make sure that you understand each Scripture, then form a theory that takes each Scripture point, then you must check again to make sure you have considered each Scripture. Test the theory, see if all Scriptures agree, if they do,you have truth, if one does not agree you must form another theory that takes into account every Scripture. Failure to do these steps is the reason there are so many differing beliefs, when the Bible only tells ONE.
    When you hear that people say the Bible is contradictory, or just wrong, all this really shows is a lack of fully understanding of what the Bible is saying.
     
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  7. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    No, the Bible is not consistent, nor does it give the same message.

    The Bible has many verses that lead people to opposite opinions and arguments.

    Nothing I said in the op is false.

    People argue and argue and argue and argue about this silly ancient book full of contradictions. theologians have been arguing Century after Century with no General clear resolution to how confusing the Bible is and what is the correct interpretation.
     
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  8. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    What your missing is that your taking a verse out of it original context of what is being said and done, this is why so many people are confused.
    Let's take Isaiah 28:10--"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little"
    This being, For Verse must be upon Verse, Verse by Verse, Chapter upon Chapter, Chapter by Chapter, here a little, and there a little.
    What your doing is taking Verse's out of their context when you pick out a Verse and try to imply it to another Chapter, which will not work.
    That's like taking apples and comparing them to oranges.it will not work.

    So when a person cherry pick's one verse out of a chapter and try to imply it into another chapter that will not work.

    The two Chapters will not be saying the thing.Thereby taking a verse out of it's context as to what is being said and done.
     
  9. Miracle

    Miracle Christian

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    I do agree that God is judge and that is why, when a man kills, steals, lies, cheats, etc I don’t determine what punishments are handed out; however, I do acknowledge that the individual has done wrong.

    Judgement/discernment goes hand in hand with free will. As individuals, we are given that freedom to judge whether right or wrong. Of course there are punishments/rewards for judgement which God dictates, however, the freedom/free will to do those things are acceptable.

    And reading the Bible judgement goes hand in hand with righteousness. Christians can judge/discern what is right and wrong. And when I say Christians, again, I refer to those who live like Christ—of which it’s possible to do through him.

    On the topic of Gods children, I believe the Bible is clear that not everyone is God’s children. We are all His creation, but we aren’t all his children. Because if we were then we would resemble him in behavior, speech, and thought.

    “For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
    ‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭8:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭8:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    There is a distinction between those of the world and those of God. If you are a child of God, you “do the will of my Father.” Those who not only hear, but do, are the disciples of Christ. There were people who believed on Jesus but it didn’t make them his followers. He didn’t recognize them as his followers either. But who he did recognize were those who continued (persist in an activity or process) in his word. What was his word? It was loving your neighbor, doing good to those who hurt you, not coming adultery — abstaining from evil.

    The beauty in this is that I didn’t say “you”. Just by looking at the message you quoted it says, “it is far to say that those who do no live by the word of God are not Christians but sinners and they need to repent”.

    Please don’t miss read my comments. Miss-reading usually leads to poor judgement. And I’m sure you weren’t intending to do so.

    *Something to note. God instructed the Israelites to wait for a Prophet who would come and teach them all things. And just in case a false prophet rose up, God have them a criteria of which to use and judge by. Check it out:

    “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

    But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.”
    ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    If false prophets existed back then, what if now. Didn’t Jesus warn us of them?

    Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”
    ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”
    ‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Now that we are living in a world where deception is so prevalent, iniquity abounds the more; it would be wise to guard your hearts and minds against wolves in sheeps clothing. Judge people based on actions and words rather than on appearances. Just righteous judgement.

    “They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. Shall I not visit for these things? saith the Lord: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

    The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?”
    ‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭5:28-29, 31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    God is the only one who can dish out judgement for these people’s sins, however, if one is not able to judge between what is sin and not sin then they are at risk of being punished with these sinners.
     
  10. Miracle

    Miracle Christian

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    Hahahaha! I enjoy talking with you. Despite our disagreements, you are very adorable.

    And I’m not saying that to degrade you or anything.
     
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  11. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Thank you for your friendly reply. Nice to see we have some agreements.

    You are right "I miss quoted". But you "missed my point". What I said still applies from my point of view.
    If you say "those who don't live by the word of God are sinners" this is still "judging the person" instead of "judging the act". I would call it "Indirect Ad hominem attack".
    Better to put it like you did above "however, I do acknowledge that the individual did commit a sin (done wrong)". Better not put the "sinner" label on someone.

    An example that, in my opinion, illustrates this very clear:
    Would you tell your child "All those who do not live by the word of God are sinners"? I don't have children, but I think this is not smart parenting. Of course if the child is perfect then no problem. But every time he fails he remembers "I am a sinner". You don't even need to tell him. He remembers your quote/statement and fills it in every time it happens. I would call it an emotional trauma. Maybe you think this is no problem to say. Then I agree to disagree. All are free to do what they believe is best. But seems didactically irresponsible to me

    May God Bless us All
     
    #31 stvdv, Sep 26, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  12. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. If you press them on the issue?

    They rattle off something like, "Me? Oh, I'm forgiven!" As if that makes all the ugly things they just said, not-ugly or something.

    Re: The Infamous 10-- what saddens me most about that list?

    Nothing against rape or slavery....!
     
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  13. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    1): Christians who "condemn" others I call arrogant spiritual Narcissists [known to be incurable], because they think "my way is the highway" even think hurting is okay
    2): As a child I did not buy this fairy tale. Jesus walking on water might be possible. But "Jesus died for my sins" is twisting truth "Jesus died because of their sin (crucify Him)"
    4): "ain't gonna fly". Because the Bible has so many examples about rape and slavery. Can't put NO in one place and YES in another (though they missed quite a few).

    When I say it hurts when Christian says "Jesus is the superior way, Buddhism/Atheism leads to Hell". They reply "Bible says so. Now you hurt me, why can't I say what I want?"
    Amazing, this reply. It not happened once. This happens so often.They are really blind. The proverbial blindness "anger blinds" applies here.

    Freedom of Speech and Religion taken out of context and taken too far.

    But the solution is simple: NoContact whatsoever. Sad thing is that these people like to control; in politics and rule the world. Looks like a vicious circle to me. Will this ever end?
     
    #33 stvdv, Sep 27, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
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  14. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Well, there can't be any prohibition against either rape or slavery in the 10, because the bible actually demands it of it's followers, given certain conditions.

    The worst are the rape-slaves, after the Hebrews were commanded to go all genocide on a group of folks the bible's god particularly hated. Kill everyone but the virgin women.

    But slavery is all though the bible-- and it's spelled out how to get and keep slaves.

    I find it especially Interesting-with-an-I, that male slaves (if they are Hebrew) have to be set free after a time, but female slaves have no such restrictions.

    Or the part where a man can get a nice wifey (wife #2? #5? No restrictions here) by simply forcing himself on her, and pay a modest fee to her owner--erm-- her "father" or "older brother" if dear old daddy has died.
     
  15. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I read the Bible in 1989. I forgot why I stopped. Probably these verses; makes me sick. I think @PopeADope might have mentioned it also recently (a few times)
    My thought on this. A total overhaul of the whole Bible. Take out all the dirt. Harmful stuff to fill your mind with. Thoughts beget words beget action before you know
    And hopefully the Islam will follow this example. And then after a few generation we will have "heaven on earth" I think.
     
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  16. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    I have often wondered myself, why christians don't do that: re-edit the bible to be in keeping with what they claim it says, instead of what is printed.

    I mean-- there are many christians in the USA, who firmly believe that giving money to the poor or worse--homeless-- only makes them dependent, and are against all such helping hands.

    The same bunch is absolutely against any sort of feed-the-hungry programs too, especially those free breakfast, free lunch programs in public education.

    I guess they prefer that such things only occur a couple of times a year, on thanks-giving and christmas: you can see them driving their expensive cars to wherever the homeless gather, and setting up grossly lavish dinners for these people. It seems they would hate to have to feed them year-round...

    There's a lot more that USA christians do, that either isn't in the bible at all, or is exactly the opposite of what is written.

    So, really, it's long past time they did a re-write to be in keeping with how they act.

    After all, they keep talking about a "living god"... ? Isn't this god capable of issuing an updated bible?

    *sigh*
     
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  17. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    God is capable according to the Christians. So this proves the Christians are not capable.
     
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  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Well that's just your problem you think the Bible needs to be updated when people need to be updated. It's thousands of years old and people still haven't caught up!
     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    No one is capable but God. That's why God is to be relied on rather than humans.
     
  20. Miracle

    Miracle Christian

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    Y’all raised some good points!! I will be back soon. Wait for meeeeeeeeee! :cry::cry::sob::(:(:(
     
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