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Christians and Cleavage

Neophyte

Miranda Kerr Worship
Question for Christians about dressing standards...

I have read in the Bible where it says that the Israelites were naked when their butts were showing. I have also seen where it says showing of the thigh is nakedness. So if a Christian says these things are nakedness I would understand why. Here is the one that gets me though...cleavage, who determined that was nakedness? Some feel it is ok to show some but some think any is wrong and evil. What evidence do they have for this? The Bible does not say this anywhere that I have ever read.

Here is what brought this question up. I was on my Facebook page when I saw these postings. I have changed the names to protect their identities...

http://www.facebook.com/#

Mary "Why is it that women think it is so sexy to see cleavage? Maybe it is my knowledge of the Bible in that God wants women covered up or maybe to me showing cleavage on the top or the bottom is just nasty, and that you are wanting more in your life than what you have."

Jane "They love the world; they have no respect for themselves; they do not love the Lord Jesus or the Word."

Mary "I have to agree with that, but even the women that claim to be Christians and even Pastor's wives are starting to dress that way. It is very disheartening."

So, what are your thoughts on this?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
First thought to pop into mind: typical fundamentalist reasoning.

Second thought: neither Mary or Jane merit enlightenment.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Question for Christians about dressing standards...

I have read in the Bible where it says that the Israelites were naked when their butts were showing. I have also seen where it says showing of the thigh is nakedness. So if a Christian says these things are nakedness I would understand why. Here is the one that gets me though...cleavage, who determined that was nakedness? Some feel it is ok to show some but some think any is wrong and evil. What evidence do they have for this? The Bible does not say this anywhere that I have ever read.

Here is what brought this question up. I was on my Facebook page when I saw these postings. I have changed the names to protect their identities...



Mary "Why is it that women think it is so sexy to see cleavage? Maybe it is my knowledge of the Bible in that God wants women covered up or maybe to me showing cleavage on the top or the bottom is just nasty, and that you are wanting more in your life than what you have."

Jane "They love the world; they have no respect for themselves; they do not love the Lord Jesus or the Word."

Mary "I have to agree with that, but even the women that claim to be Christians and even Pastor's wives are starting to dress that way. It is very disheartening."

So, what are your thoughts on this?

Dressing provocatively is a way to draw attention to ones self. So it could be an issue of self exultation rather then the christian quality of humility.
I think it comes down to a few things such as intent/motive, ie why do you want to show cleavage. Consideration for others come into play because if you know that your Christian brothers are trying hard to remain chaste, then by showing them cleavage, you could be making it more difficult for them to keep their minds off fleshly desire.
And then our own self respect comes into play too. If you respect yourself, you would not want to display yourself in a sexual way...you would want people to look at 'YOU', not your body.

There are a few scriptural principles that should govern the way we dress:
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad. Self-exaltation and pride and the bad way and the perverse mouth I have hated.

Micah 6:8 He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?

Galatians 5:13 YOU were, of course, called for freedom, brothers; only do not use this freedom as an inducement for the flesh, but through love slave for one another. 14 For the entire Law stands fulfilled in one saying, namely: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.

Philippians 4:8-9 Finally, brothers,... whatever things are chaste,... whatever virtue there is and whatever praiseworthy thing there is, continue considering these things. 9...practice these; and the God of peace will be with you.

James 3:17 But the wisdom from above is first of all chaste...

1Peter 3:3-4 And do not let YOUR adornment be that of the external braiding of the hair and of the putting on of gold ornaments or the wearing of outer garments, 4 but let it be the secret person of the heart in the incorruptible [apparel] of the quiet and mild spirit, which is of great value in the eyes of God
 
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Otherright

Otherright
Dressing provocatively is a way to draw attention to ones self. So it could be an issue of self exultation rather then the christian quality of humility.
I think it comes down to a few things such as intent/motive, ie why do you want to show cleavage. Consideration for others come into play because if you know that your Christian brothers are trying hard to remain chaste, then by showing them cleavage, you could be making it more difficult for them to keep their minds off fleshly desire.
And then our own self respect comes into play too. If you respect yourself, you would not want to display yourself in a sexual way...you would want people to look at 'YOU', not your body.

There are a few scriptural principles that should govern the way we dress:
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad. Self-exaltation and pride and the bad way and the perverse mouth I have hated.

Micah 6:8 He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?

Galatians 5:13 YOU were, of course, called for freedom, brothers; only do not use this freedom as an inducement for the flesh, but through love slave for one another. 14 For the entire Law stands fulfilled in one saying, namely: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.

Philippians 4:8-9 Finally, brothers,... whatever things are chaste,... whatever virtue there is and whatever praiseworthy thing there is, continue considering these things. 9...practice these; and the God of peace will be with you.

James 3:17 But the wisdom from above is first of all chaste...

1Peter 3:3-4 And do not let YOUR adornment be that of the external braiding of the hair and of the putting on of gold ornaments or the wearing of outer garments, 4 but let it be the secret person of the heart in the incorruptible [apparel] of the quiet and mild spirit, which is of great value in the eyes of God

But, isn't nakedness fine in the sight of God. Adam and Eve didn't know clothing before they ate of the fruit. God was fine then. Although, he did fashion clothes for them, but only out of there own embarrassment. It wasn't him that saw shame in it.

Also, Noah cursed his own son and cast him out for simply covering his nakedness, and God was fine with that.
 
I bypassed everything that was written but the initial question.
Standards
everything is a sin if done with the wrong intentions.

If you dress to be sexy, it is a sin.
If you dress to be impressive, it is a sin,
if you dress because your ashamed of your body, it is a sin.

Anything done against the Lords Loving Wisdom is wrong.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
But, isn't nakedness fine in the sight of God. Adam and Eve didn't know clothing before they ate of the fruit. God was fine then. Although, he did fashion clothes for them, but only out of there own embarrassment. It wasn't him that saw shame in it.

Also, Noah cursed his own son and cast him out for simply covering his nakedness, and God was fine with that.

absolutely nakedness is not an issue for God. But with mankinds imperfection, it is us who have perverted nakedness and therefore that is why God make Adam and Eve clothing so as to cover themselves.

If we could look at our nakedness and not think about it sexually, then there is nothing wrong with nakedness. but when we objectify it and promote it as something sexual, ie cleavage is for the purpose of sexualising breasts, then it is not in harmony with Gods perfect standard and is therefore a sin.
 
therefore that is why God make Adam and Eve clothing so as to cover themselves.

I disagree, sticking to my original claim,
I think God made Adam and Eve clothing because Winter came with his wrath.
this is theoretical however.

But I completely agree with your second statement.
God bless :)
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
absolutely nakedness is not an issue for God. But with mankinds imperfection, it is us who have perverted nakedness and therefore that is why God make Adam and Eve clothing so as to cover themselves.
The way I read the incident
Gen. 3:6-7

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

any perversion of nakedness was not a conscious act of A&E, but a self-recognition thrust upon them by god. One that was waiting in the wings, so to speak, should they happen to violate god's command. To me it seems a rather odd penalty for such a transgression; a penalty hardly related to the nature of the prohibition.

If we could look at our nakedness and not think about it sexually, then there is nothing wrong with nakedness.
I don't know about you or anyone else, but when I look at my nakedness I don't think about it sexually. It just doesn't turn me on. :shrug:


but when we objectify it and promote it as something sexual, ie cleavage is for the purpose of sexualising breasts, then it is not in harmony with Gods perfect standard and is therefore a sin.
But wasn't it god who generated this very reaction when he invested A&E with a shame that had people hiding certain parts of their body, and thus turning them into an enticement they otherwise wouldn't have?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
When you peer into a woman's cleavage, you're peering into the gates of hell. Repent!
 

horizon_mj1

Well-Known Member
May I answer the question with a question? Breasts are more or less a Human "utter", they were not made for Men's pleasure, but for the survival of the species; if one is obsessed with breasts, who is more odd in Truth, the woman showing cleavage or the man obsessing over a "milk sack"?
 
MIlk sack?
milk sack!
If I was lost in the forest with my wife, and we had a child who somehow isn't in the situation, I can give her all the food and drink the milk,
loving breasts is a survival instinct!

:p
 

HiddenDjinn

Well-Known Member
It's My Birthday!
You know I personally enjoy Christian cleavage. Pentecostal girls will show rather readily.
 

Neophyte

Miranda Kerr Worship
absolutely nakedness is not an issue for God. But with mankinds imperfection, it is us who have perverted nakedness and therefore that is why God make Adam and Eve clothing so as to cover themselves.

If we could look at our nakedness and not think about it sexually, then there is nothing wrong with nakedness. but when we objectify it and promote it as something sexual, ie cleavage is for the purpose of sexualising breasts, then it is not in harmony with Gods perfect standard and is therefore a sin.

OK, I understand your reasoning here, but what does not make sense to me is that God gave us our sexual desire. Grant it, each culture is somewhat different in what is a "turn-on" to them, but overall (for the most part) we still all want the same thing. If it were so evil the why would God give it to us? That seems like a mistake on his part if he is going to call it sin.
 

Neophyte

Miranda Kerr Worship
I bypassed everything that was written but the initial question.
Standards
everything is a sin if done with the wrong intentions.

If you dress to be sexy, it is a sin.
If you dress to be impressive, it is a sin,
if you dress because your ashamed of your body, it is a sin.

Anything done against the Lords Loving Wisdom is wrong.

There is really no evidence of anything in this post. I do respect your opinion, but please give some evidence as to what you are saying.
 
Actually sexual desire comes after eating the apple,
your not taking everything into consideration.

evidence:
If I buy nice cloths to look cool, or pretty, or a suit to get a job, I'm sinning with my clothing because of pride.
the sexual reasons are self explanatory,
and the shame part is a level of disgrace we show towards God.

..
will that do?
 

Neophyte

Miranda Kerr Worship
I disagree, sticking to my original claim,
I think God made Adam and Eve clothing because Winter came with his wrath.
this is theoretical however.

But I completely agree with your second statement.
God bless :)

If you look at Christian Science you would find winter came from the flood. It is believe an out layer of ice surrounded the would keeping the world somewhere around 70F all around the earth and with a pinkish sky. Again, this is a theory though. Once the flood came God melted the ice and it rained. That is where the ocean waters came from...again all theory.
 
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