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Christianity without Paul
- Thread starter Shermana
- Start date
Me Myself
Back to my username
Agreed.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
:no:
But I really don't care to much to argue. Your just the first person to say such.
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
Have you not read the works of Josephus, I have, every Christian really
should read his work, side by side with the Gospels.
Both Josephus and Luke use the same Introduction? Coincidence
(Against Apion)
I suppose that by my books of the Antiquity of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus,
(Vita 76)
But to thee, O Epaphroditus, (27) thou most excellent of men! do I dedicate all this treatise of our Antiquities; and so, for the present, I here conclude the whole.
Luke 1:3
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus
Act 1:1
The former treatise have I made , O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach [/I],
//// I have reasons to believe this "Epaphroditus" is the either "Matthew" or "Luke" (Lucius Plutarch)////
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How can he be trained by Rabbi "Gamalial" yet no Jewish Record of it. if he was trained by "Gamalial" would that not make him a Rabbi and of the Sanhedrin as well as a Pharisee ?? Only person i could think of is Flavius Josephus
According to Flavius Josephus, Gamalial had two children Simon and Jesus.
-(Flavius)- FLAVIVS / PLAVIVS / PAVLIVS -(Paul)-
Christianity without Flavius Josephus
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/autobiog.htm
)_______________________________
At "about fourteen years of age," he (Josephus) was commanded by all
for the love I had to learning (Vita 9)
When Jesus was twelve years old his parents found him after three days in
the Temple conversing with the teachers (Mat 2.46)
_________________________________________________________________
12 Jews of Caesaria are sent as a delegation to Ecbatana (Vita 54-55)
Jesus appoints and sends out 12 apostles to preach and heal (Mat.10.2,5)
______________________________________________________________________
70 messengers are sent from Ecbatana to Caesarea (Vita 56)
Jesus appointed 70 others and sent them ahead of him (Luke 10.1)
_____________________________________________________________________
During this time, before his purported surrender to the Romans, "I
was now about thirty years old" (Vita 80)
Jesus commenced his ministry when he was 30 years of age (Luke 3.23)
______________________________________________________________________
Josephus’ quarters were in a Galilean village named Cana (Vita 86)
Jesus attended a wedding in Cana (John 2.1-2) then came to Cana
again (John 4.46)
________________________________________________________________________
Josephus told his friends that "in three days time" he would "quit the
district and go home" (Vita 205)
Jesus prophecies he will be raised up on the third day (Mat. 16.21)
____________________________________________________________________________
Jesus, chief magistrate of Tiberias, accuses Josephus of embezzling 20
pieces of gold (Vita 294-297). They laid hands on him and attempted to
kill him (Vita 302)
But if the ox have killed a man-servant, or a maid-servant, let him be stoned; and let the owner of the ox pay thirty shekels to the master of him that was slain; (Ant IV 36)
Judas goes to the priests and obtains 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus
(Mat. 26.14-16)
__________________________________________________________________________
Josephus notices three of his acquaintances had been crucified, so he
entreats Titus to take them down; two of them die but one recovers (Vita 420-421)
Two robbers were crucified on either side of Jesus (Mat. 18.38).
When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple (Mat 27:57)
He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. (Mat 27:58) And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth (Mat 27:59 ) Only Jesus
rises (Mat. 28.6)
-------Josephus' Attributes-------------
1. A Prophet
2. Child Prodigy around Age 12
22. Baptized, Essene, unshaven hair
3. Tells Jews to Save themselves
4. His own Resurrection Account
5. 12 Disciples
6. 70 Additional Disciples
7. Begins Ministry at Age 30
8. Attends wedding in Cana, Galilee
9. Betraying using Money
10. 3 Crucified , 1 Survived
11. Son of God
12. He speaks of the "skill" of expelling demons.
13. He is the first to speak of a "laser root,"
14. He perpetuates the idea of "signs" and omens
15. The idea of "Ghosts
16. The idea of "Angels.
17. Evil Spirits and Demons.
18. Fortune Tellers and "Mediums
19. Prophets telling the future and showing "signs", wonders and miracles
20. The idea of "Witches
21. saying of "Grace
22. He deliberately misspells the word “stone” as “son” to infer “the Son (of God),” i.e. “Jesus” is coming!!!
23. First Person to Mention John The Baptist/James/Jesus
24. He Speaks of the Idea of Sin and Hell
25. Son of Mary as a Passover Lamb
26. Legion @ Galilee
27. Speaks of Romans Decapitating Fishermen in Galilee
28. "Why Have you Forsaken Me"
29. Legion of 2000 Demons
30. Martyr Death of Simon, Spares Jesus
31. Signs Before Destruction of Temple.
32. Mount of Olives
33. Simon's Denials
34. Naked Jew
35. Simon the Rock
36. Josephus' copied his own name sake of Joseph of Genesis (mirror image of Jesus)
37. Plays same role as Joseph of Arimathea
38. His son Titus Justus makes an appearance in Acts
39. Book of Acts/Luke as similar opening address with his Vita, Against Apion and Antiquities.
40. First person to mention Christ
41. Adopted by Titus (a.k.a Son of God)
42. Paul' Journey and Josephus' Journey
43. Gospels are dependent of his Work
44. Luke/Acts used his histories
Now we know who created Christianity
Did you sort through the writing in the link you posted and arrange these lists yourself, Rhadamanthus? Or did you copy the lists from another site?
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
All my own research, most is written on txts Document ready for a book, I have countless amounts of Similarities
Impressive. :yes:
One thing: (and please don't be insulted by the suggestion. It's bound to come up at some point anyway) you might want to add the number of each verse at the end of each item on your list. It would make cross-checking a lot easier.
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
The Works of Flavius Josephus
Sure, since most people would think i am a Liar.
The Strange thing about "Josephus", after he writes his Books, He "Disappears" from historical
record, no one knows where he is, or where he is Buried, or even the location of his tomb, (Maybe in Vatican under a pseudo-saint name)
Child Prodigy
At "about fourteen years of age," he (Josephus) was commanded by all
for the love I had to learning (Vita 9)
Baptized by John-Banus the Essene, unshaven hair / Time in Desert
I was informed that one, whose name was Banus, lived in the desert, and used no other clothing than grew upon trees, and had no other food than what grew of its own accord, and bathed himself in cold water frequently, both by night and by day, in order to preserve his chastity, I imitated him in those things, and continued with him three years. (Vita 2)
12 Disciples
He therefore called to him twelve of the Jews of Cesarea (Vita 11)
. So when the twelve messengers came to their countrymen at Ecbatana, (Vita 11)
70 Disciples and another 12 Disciples
So these seventy went down to Caesarea, together with the twelve ambassadors; (Vita 11)
So I was willing to have the principal of the Galileans, in all seventy, as hostages for their fidelity (Vita 14)
Begins Ministry around aged 30
He was born around 37ce, and he administrates galilee around aged 30 around 66-7CE
Josephus :- (believed to have)Died and Resurrected (Miraculous recovery)
Josephus called once more for surrender. This time, he was hit on the head with a stone and was presumed dead, though he revived and resumed his peace efforts, his mother fought
he died, she is later pleased he resurrected
3. In the mean time, Josephus, as he was going round the city, had his head wounded by a stone that was thrown at him; upon which he fell down as giddy. Upon which fall of his the Jews made a sally, and he had been hurried away into the city, if Caesar had not sent men to protect him immediately; and as these men were fighting, Josephus was taken up, though he heard little of what was done. So the seditious supposed they had now slain that man whom they were the most desirous of killing, and made thereupon a great noise, in way of rejoicing. This accident was told in the city, and the multitude that remained became very disconsolate at the news, as being persuaded that he was really dead, on whose account alone they could venture to desert to the Romans. But when Josephus's mother heard in prison that her son was dead, she said to those that watched about her, That she had always been of opinion, since the siege of Jotapata, [that he would be slain,] and she should never enjoy him alive any more. She also made great lamentation privately to the maid-servants that were about her, and said, That this was all the advantage she had of bringing so extraordinary a person as this son into the world; that she should not be able even to bury that son of hers, by whom she expected to have been buried herself. However, this false report did not put his mother to pain, nor afford merriment to the robbers, long; for Josephus soon recovered of his wound, and came out, and cried out aloud, That it would not be long ere they should be punished for this wound they had given him. He also made a fresh exhortation to the people to come out upon the security that would be given them. This sight of Josephus encouraged the people greatly, and brought a great consternation upon the seditious. (War of the Jews V, Chapter 13 Verse 3)
A Prophet
Recalling Josephus' prophecy, Vespasian frees him; at Titus' recommendation, Josephus' chains are severed with an axe, signifying he had been unjustly imprisoned. (War 4.10.7 622-629)
Rhadamanthus
Limenoscopus
Josephus said, not me
And now Jesus, the son of Gamaliel (Antiquities 20, Chapter 9, Verse 4)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/ant-20.htm
Unfortunately, she has a point. should probably start another thread for this, Rhadamanthus.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Oh yes, I agree.
But obviously, Paul's Christianity took the Hellenistic path in a way that Judaism cannot anticipate.
Oak of Justice
Member
Christianity would do better to follow the son of man and forget Paul.Paul never did what Jesus commanded. He never kept the words of Jesus, he spoke on his own which Jesus described as seeking his own glory.
The son of man says;
"Whoever speaks on his own, seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no dishonesty in his heart".
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him."
Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.
Whoever does not love me does not keep my words.
I know the Lord and I keep His words.
The son of man says;
"Whoever speaks on his own, seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no dishonesty in his heart".
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him."
Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.
Whoever does not love me does not keep my words.
I know the Lord and I keep His words.
When you're wondering about something, you should ask, rather than waiting for some disgruntled member to show up with vindictive gossip.
bigbadgirl
Active Member
Josephus was a coward. Why did he not commit suicide in Galilee after his capture, surrendering to the Romans after he convinced his supporters to kill each other?
It would be the same to those who understand God's truth.
To most, they would lose their favorite Bible writer to twist, while they prevert God's word.
A Judaic Renewal? Remembering WHY we engage in the law instead of getting lost in doing it, perhaps?
Shermana
Heretic
A spiritual friend indeed, may your understanding reach many ears and eyes.