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Christianity vs Baha'i

Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
The Book of Romans mentions believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead.
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9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Paul says nothing about the physical body of Jesus being raised from the grave.
"him" is not a physical body, it is His spirit.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Paul says nothing about the physical body of Jesus being raised from the grave.
"him" is not a physical body, it is His spirit.
Click to expand...

God couldn't raise Jesus from the dead because Jesus was sinless and never spiritually dead.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
How could his spirit be ressurected if he wasn't spiritually dead?
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The same way all spirits are resurrected when the body dies:

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
The same way all spirits are resurrected when the body dies:

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
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Spirits die because of spiritual death. The Bible says that the soul that sins shall die.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
Spirits die because of spiritual death. The Bible says that the soul that sins shall die.
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The soul cannot die because it is immortal. What the Bible means is that the soul that sins will not have eternal life.

When Jesus referred to eternal life, but He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God, and we can have eternal life both in this world and in the next world (the spiritual world).

All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not life of the physical body.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but haveeternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

All souls continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls have eternal life (everlasting life).
Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2 ” Some Answered Questions, p. 223

“Likewise, the rewards of the other world are the eternal life which is clearly mentioned in all the Holy Books, the divine perfections, the eternal bounties and everlasting felicity….The rewards of the other world are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 224-225

Those people who are distant from God do not have eternal life, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.” Some Answered Questions, p. 243
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
The soul cannot die because it is immortal. What the Bible means is that the soul that sins will not have eternal life.

When Jesus referred to eternal life, but He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God, and we can have eternal life both in this world and in the next world (the spiritual world).

All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not life of the physical body.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but haveeternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

All souls continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls have eternal life (everlasting life).
Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2 ” Some Answered Questions, p. 223

“Likewise, the rewards of the other world are the eternal life which is clearly mentioned in all the Holy Books, the divine perfections, the eternal bounties and everlasting felicity….The rewards of the other world are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 224-225

Those people who are distant from God do not have eternal life, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.” Some Answered Questions, p. 243
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What do you think it means that the soul of Jesus died?
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
Only the body ressurecting doesn't sound biblical. Body, spirit, and soul are one.
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I don't know what you mean by that. Yes, body, soul, and spirit are one in the sense that Jesus had all three and they worked together as long as He had a body.

Jesus was a human, just like you and I, but Jesus had special powers and capacities, so He was different from ordinary humans. As a Manifestation of God, Jesus had a third station which is what differentiates Manifestations of God from all other humans:

“Know that the Holy Manifestations, though They have the degrees of endless perfections, yet, speaking generally, have only three stations. The first station is the physical; the second station is the human, which is that of the rational soul; the third is that of the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor.

The physical station is phenomenal; it is composed of elements, and necessarily everything that is composed is subject to decomposition. It is not possible that a composition should not be disintegrated.

The second is the station of the rational soul, which is the human reality. This also is phenomenal, and the Holy Manifestations share it with all mankind.

The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning.”

Some Answered Questions, pp. 151-152

38: THE THREE STATIONS OF THE DIVINE MANIFESTATIONS
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
I don't know what you mean by that. Yes, body, soul, and spirit are one in the sense that Jesus had all three and they worked together as long as He had a body.

Jesus was a human, just like you and I, but Jesus had special powers and capacities, so He was different from ordinary humans. As a Manifestation of God, Jesus had a third station which is what differentiates Manifestations of God from all other humans:

“Know that the Holy Manifestations, though They have the degrees of endless perfections, yet, speaking generally, have only three stations. The first station is the physical; the second station is the human, which is that of the rational soul; the third is that of the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor.

The physical station is phenomenal; it is composed of elements, and necessarily everything that is composed is subject to decomposition. It is not possible that a composition should not be disintegrated.

The second is the station of the rational soul, which is the human reality. This also is phenomenal, and the Holy Manifestations share it with all mankind.

The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning.”

Some Answered Questions, pp. 151-152

38: THE THREE STATIONS OF THE DIVINE MANIFESTATIONS
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What prophet who wasn't God had special powers and capacities? John the baptist was never described as different from ordinary humans.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
What prophet who wasn't God had special powers and capacities? John the baptist was never described as different from ordinary humans.
Click to expand...
There is more than one kind of prophet:

Question: How many kinds of divine Prophets are there?

Answer: There are three kinds of divine Prophets. One kind are the universal Manifestations, which are even as the sun. Through Their advent the world of existence is renewed, a new cycle is inaugurated, a new religion is revealed, souls are quickened to a new life, and East and West are flooded with light. These Souls are the universal Manifestations of God and have been sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind.

Another kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, not leaders and law-givers, but they are nonetheless the recipients of the hidden inspirations of God. Yet another kind are Prophets Whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality. But the universal Manifestations are all-encompassing: They are like the root, and all others are as the branches; they are like the sun, and all others are as the moon and the stars.

The Three Kinds of Prophets​

The universal Manifestations of God were not God but they all had special powers and capacities. The two other kinds of Prophets did not have special powers or capacities.

Question.—It is recorded that miracles were performed by Christ. Are the reports of these miracles really to be accepted literally, or have they another meaning? It has been proved by exact science that the essence of things does not change, and that all beings are under one universal law and organization from which they cannot deviate; and, therefore, that which is contrary to universal law is impossible.

Answer.—The Holy Manifestations are the sources of miracles and the originators of wonderful signs. For Them, any difficult and impracticable thing is possible and easy. For through a supernatural power wonders appear from Them; and by this power, which is beyond nature, They influence the world of nature. From all the Manifestations marvelous things have appeared.

But in the Holy Books an especial terminology is employed, and for the Manifestations these miracles and wonderful signs have no importance. They do not even wish to mention them. For if we consider miracles a great proof, they are still only proofs and arguments for those who are present when they are performed, and not for those who are absent....
Some Answered Questions, p. 100

22: MIRACLES​
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
There is more than one kind of prophet:

Question: How many kinds of divine Prophets are there?

Answer: There are three kinds of divine Prophets. One kind are the universal Manifestations, which are even as the sun. Through Their advent the world of existence is renewed, a new cycle is inaugurated, a new religion is revealed, souls are quickened to a new life, and East and West are flooded with light. These Souls are the universal Manifestations of God and have been sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind.

Another kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, not leaders and law-givers, but they are nonetheless the recipients of the hidden inspirations of God. Yet another kind are Prophets Whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality. But the universal Manifestations are all-encompassing: They are like the root, and all others are as the branches; they are like the sun, and all others are as the moon and the stars.

The Three Kinds of Prophets​

The universal Manifestations of God were not God but they all had special powers and capacities. The two other kinds of Prophets did not have special powers or capacities.

Question.—It is recorded that miracles were performed by Christ. Are the reports of these miracles really to be accepted literally, or have they another meaning? It has been proved by exact science that the essence of things does not change, and that all beings are under one universal law and organization from which they cannot deviate; and, therefore, that which is contrary to universal law is impossible.

Answer.—The Holy Manifestations are the sources of miracles and the originators of wonderful signs. For Them, any difficult and impracticable thing is possible and easy. For through a supernatural power wonders appear from Them; and by this power, which is beyond nature, They influence the world of nature. From all the Manifestations marvelous things have appeared.

But in the Holy Books an especial terminology is employed, and for the Manifestations these miracles and wonderful signs have no importance. They do not even wish to mention them. For if we consider miracles a great proof, they are still only proofs and arguments for those who are present when they are performed, and not for those who are absent....
Some Answered Questions, p. 100

22: MIRACLES​
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What do you think the similarities and differences between that and the Bible teaching that Jesus had the threefold ministry of prophet, priest, and king?
 
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