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Featured Christianity vs Baha'i

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nakosis, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Wierd post deleted.
     
    #361 Skywalker, Nov 24, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  2. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    The Holy Spirit is not God in Essence , but it is all we can know of God in Attributes.

    All the Messengers are born of the Holy Spirit and are the embodiment all the Attributes, they are not God and at the same time all we can know of God.

    Regards Tony
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I know that Jesus was talking about authority, but if God was greater than Jesus that means that Jesus cannot be God since Jesus cannot be greater than Himself. That is logically impossible.
     
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  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    The other way to look at it is that we beleive in the Bible with a different understanding.

    That understanding is valid, or it is not.

    For many, they need time to show what will be.

    Regards Tony
     
  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Yes Muhammad is foretold.

    Shown in both old and new testaments.

    Regards Tony
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    The CARM.org website says: "Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people."

    Yes, I believe that Jesus had two natures, a human nature and a divine nature; but that does not mean Jesus was actually God. Having two natures means that Jesus was kind of like a hybrid, a God-man.

    “Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67
     
  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is God the Son, not God the Father. Jesus as the Son of God

     
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Out of a well, falling into a ditch.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says Jesus is God. Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man in multiple verses. Jesus wasnt a prophet, but he had the role of Prophet, Priest, and King. Does the Bible ever refer to Jesus as God? | CARM.org

     
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  10. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I do not see Jesus says that.

    I see many Christians have defaulted to that understanding.

    Regards Tony
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said he was God many times. Did Jesus say He is God? | GotQuestions.org

     
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man, which is a reference to Him being the Messiah. What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of Man? | GotQuestions.org

     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus being the Son of God is a reference to the Trinity. Jesus as the Son of God

     
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The prophet like Moses is a reference to Jesus, not Mohammed. Was Muhammad the Prophet like unto Moses?

     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The expression Son of Man is a reference to Jesus being the Messiah. Why is Jesus Called the "Son of Man"? — Knowing Scripture

     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Bible has not been corrupted. The apostles saw Jesus after He ressurected. Multiple people dont hallucinate the same thing. Jesus is God. He had the role of Prophet, Priest, and King, but He is not just a prophet-He is the Savior. Has the Bible been corrupted, altered, edited, revised, or tampered with? | GotQuestions.org

     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Jesus was the Son of Man, and Baha'u'llah referred to Jesus as then Son of Man in this passage:

    “Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

    We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified

    Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

    But Jesus was not the Son of man referred to in Daniel 7:13-14. Dan 7:13-14 says one like the Son of man so we know it is not referring to Jesus, it is referring to Baha’u’llah.

    Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

    Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds. Baha’u’llah, one like a son of man, descended from the clouds of heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom was in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom was on earth.

    John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Baha'is do not believe that the Bible has been corrupted, because Baha'u'llah wrote that the Bible has not been corrupted. Addressing the Muslims, Baha’u’llah wrote:

    “We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also?” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 89

    “Our purpose in relating these things is to warn you that were they to maintain that those verses wherein the signs referred to in the Gospel are mentioned have been perverted, were they to reject them, and cling instead to other verses and traditions, you should know that their words were utter falsehood and sheer calumny. Yea “corruption” of the text, in the sense We have referred to, hath been actually effected in particular instances. A few of these We have mentioned, that it may become manifest to every discerning observer that unto a few untutored holy Men hath been given the mastery of human learning, so that the malevolent opposer may cease to contend that a certain verse doth indicate “corruption” of the text, and insinuate that We, through lack of knowledge, have made mention of such things. Moreover, most of the verses that indicate “corruption” of the text have been revealed with reference to the Jewish people, were ye to explore the isles of Qur’ánic Revelation.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 88-89
    There is no proof that Jesus was ever resurrected from the dead. Anyone can write a story about multiple witnesses but since there was nobody outside of the story itself to confirm it, it may as well be fiction.

    What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death:

    Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

    They also believe that Paul regarded the resurrection to be an act of God in which Jesus was a passive recipient of God's power. Paul did not mention the empty tomb, the visit by a woman or women, the stone, the angel/angels/man/men at the tomb, and reunion of Jesus with his followers in his resuscitated body. Rather, he believed that Jesus was taken up into heaven in a spirit body. It was only later, from about 70 to 110 CE when the four canonic Gospels were written, that the Christians believed that Jesus rose from the grave in his original body, and by his own power.

    Later, perhaps after Paul's death, there was great disappointment within the Christian communities because Jesus had not returned as expected. They diverted their focus of attention away from Jesus' second coming. They studied his life and death more intensely. Legends without a historical basis were created by the early church; these included the empty tomb and described Jesus returning in his original body to eat and talk with his followers.

    In previous centuries, almost all Christians believed in miracles as described in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). These included creation, the story of Adam and Eve, a talking serpent, the great flood of Noah, the drying up of the Red/Reed sea, a prophet riding on a talking ***, the sun stopping in the sky, etc. From the Christian Scriptures (New Testament), they believed in the virgin birth, the Christmas star, angels appearing to the shepherds, Jesus healing the sick, etc. Many, perhaps most, liberal Christians now believe that these stories are not to be interpreted literally as real events. Their faith has not been damaged by losing faith in the reality of these events. A growing number of liberals are now taking the final step by interpreting the stories of Jesus' resurrection and his appearances to his followers and to Paul as other than real events. Retired bishop John Shelby Spong commented:

    "I do admit that for Christians to enter this subject honestly is to invite great anxiety. It is to walk the razor's edge, to run the risk of cutting the final cord still binding many to the faith of their mothers and fathers. But the price for refusing to enter this consideration is for me even higher. The inability to question reveals that one has no confidence that one's belief system will survive such an inquiry. That is a tacit recognition that on unconscious levels, one's faith has already died. If one seeks to protect God from truth or new insights, then God has surely already died." 3
     
  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Quoted from the site ex Muslim. Is the Bible Corrupted?

     
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  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    @ CG Didymus

    Skywalker said:
    The Bible has not been corrupted. Has the Bible been corrupted, altered, edited, revised, or tampered with? | GotQuestions.org

    Question: "Has the Bible been corrupted, altered, edited, revised, or tampered with?"

    Answer:
    The books of the Old Testament were written from approximately 1400 BC to 400 BC. The books of the New Testament were written from approximately AD 40 to AD 90. So, anywhere between 3,400 and 1,900 years have passed since a book of the Bible was written. In this time, the original manuscripts have been lost. They very likely no longer exist. Since the time the books of the Bible were originally written, they have been copied again and again by scribes. Copies of copies of copies have been made. In view of this, can we still trust the Bible?

    Given what that Christian website above says, there is no reason to think that the Bible/Torah was accurate regarding Isaac being the one who was sacrificed.

    "The Bahá'ís believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic saying of a Prophet. A striking example is given in the account of the sacrifice which Abraham was called upon to make. The Guardian of the Faith confirms that the record in the Qur'an and the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, namely that it was Ishmael, and not Isaac as stated in the Old Testament, whom Abraham was to sacrifice, is to be upheld. In one of His Tablets 'Abdu'l-Bahá refers to this discrepancy, and explains that, from a spiritual point of view, it is irrelevant which son was involved. The essential part of the story is that Abraham was willing to obey God's command to sacrifice His son. Thus, although the account in the Torah is inaccurate in detail, it is true in substance...."

    The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments
    From letters written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice
     
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