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Christianity - Once Saved Always Saved?

Do you believe it is possible to "lose your salvation"?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • No.

    Votes: 21 46.7%
  • I don't know.

    Votes: 5 11.1%

  • Total voters
    45

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Explain how what your works do for you in light of this scripture from Ephesians 2:

"[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast."
I agree salvation comes through the Grace of God
But it is a free gift only in the sense that we still have to receive it, and that we have repented our sins. we do not receive it till we come before God.

"Not of works" is not meaning how we live our lives;
but that we can not buy our way to Gods favour. Perhaps by Building Churches, setting up charities etc. making our religion a show.
This does not mean we do not have to lead our lives following the teachings of Jesus.
 

Genna

Member
What happens if someone who is saved continues in their sins, i.e., fleshly lusts, sex without marriage?
 

PetShopBoy88

Active Member
Genna said:
What happens if someone who is saved continues in their sins, i.e., fleshly lusts, sex without marriage?
I believe you aren't truly "saved" unless you repent of your sins and forsake them. When John was baptising people before Christ came, he only baptised those who had repented of their sins. Repentence is a necessary step on the way to "salvation", so if you willfully continue in those sins, you are not "saved".
 

Genna

Member
BTW, I like the petshop boys! Anyway how many sins does one have to commit to be proven not saved? I mean, even if a person repents does this mean that they cannot sin? and if they can sin, how many sins does it take to show that they are not truly repentant? And how do you define "willfully" sinning?
 

PetShopBoy88

Active Member
Genna said:
BTW, I like the petshop boys!
Yeah, they're pretty much the greatest band ever. :yes:

Anyway how many sins does one have to commit to be proven not saved?
There is no set number. If somebody commits one sin, knowing that it's a sin, and purposefully doesn't repent, that would, IMO, be a good indication that they are not "saved". On the other hand, if they committ many sins and repent of them all, this would indicate the opposite.

I mean, even if a person repents does this mean that they cannot sin?
No. They can and usually will still sin. In fact, they may commit the same sin from which they repented. I know I've done that.

And how do you define "willfully" sinning?
Knowing that what you are doing is sinful plus purposely doing that thing is willfully sinning, as I see it.
 

Genna

Member
I like the Petshop boys song called "Always On My Mind"

But anyways, if I continue to have sex without getting married does this mean that I will be tortured in hell if I die this way?
 

PetShopBoy88

Active Member
Genna said:
I like the Petshop boys song called "Always On My Mind"

But anyways, if I continue to have sex without getting married does this mean that I will be tortured in hell if I die this way?
I'm not the one to make that kind of call ;) but if you are unrepentent it would seem that either (a) you are unclear as to why this is a sin or (b) you are specifically and knowlingly rejecting Christ's council. These two things would lead to different results, since I believe that it is the intentions that count, not the actions per se.

And, Always On My Mind is definitely one of my favourites, too.
 

Genna

Member
Then how do I stop from sinning? Sexual desires are so tempting you know, so how am I just to get rid of these strong desires?
 

PetShopBoy88

Active Member
Genna said:
Then how do I stop from sinning? Sexual desires are so tempting you know, so how am I just to get rid of these strong desires?
I don't think I"m the one you should talk to about that. :D My recidivism rate is really high.



















(I've been waiting a long time to be able to use that word...)
 

athanasius

Well-Known Member
There are over 80 passages in the bible that clearly show that a sanctified Christian CAN loose your salvation. This was also always taught by the early christian Fathers of the Church too. Jesus was very clear in (Matt 5:27-30) when he told people not to lust because it could send you to hell. Hence Lusting is a mortal sin. Notice Jesus NEVER says "If your hand causes you to sin, don't worry about it becuase you made me your personal Lord and saviour and you loose your salvation". Rather Jesus DOES say "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; Its better to loose one of your hands than your whole Body be thrown into hell". Jesus clearly shows us that threre are certain sins(Like Lust) we can commit that can send us to hell if we don't repent before dying. These sins are called mortal sins. St John's epistle (1 John 5:16-17) talks about Mortal sin(In the Greek "A sin unto Death). These mortal sins are sins unto spiritual death(like Jesus talked about in Matt 5) that can separate us from God and heaven if we do not repent before we die. St Paul mentions a list of them in (Galatians 5:19-21). St Peter also makes mention of loosing your salvation as the true proverb teaches(1 Peter 2:20-22). I hope that helps a little.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
athanasius said:
There are over 80 passages in the bible that clearly show that a sanctified Christian CAN loose your salvation. This was also always taught by the early christian Fathers of the Church too. Jesus was very clear in (Matt 5:27-30) when he told people not to lust because it could send you to hell. Hence Lusting is a mortal sin. Notice Jesus NEVER says "If your hand causes you to sin, don't worry about it becuase you made me your personal Lord and saviour and you loose your salvation". Rather Jesus DOES say "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; Its better to loose one of your hands than your whole Body be thrown into hell". Jesus clearly shows us that threre are certain sins(Like Lust) we can commit that can send us to hell if we don't repent before dying. These sins are called mortal sins. St John's epistle (1 John 5:16-17) talks about Mortal sin(In the Greek "A sin unto Death). These mortal sins are sins unto spiritual death(like Jesus talked about in Matt 5) that can separate us from God and heaven if we do not repent before we die. St Paul mentions a list of them in (Galatians 5:19-21). St Peter also makes mention of loosing your salvation as the true proverb teaches(1 Peter 2:20-22). I hope that helps a little.
When you lust you've lost your salvation in the moment. Instead of being you are desiring, and typically desiring that which does not belong to you. Lust carries along with it the desire to possss. Confusing love and posession is one of the ways we 'miss the mark.'

2 c,
luna
 
John 10:28-29
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I interpret this to mean no man can pluck you from the Lord's hand.....NO MAN......that includes me and you!
Also, I believe that no one sin is greater than another. When we are saved, we are washed clean from all sin, past, present and future, in God's eyes. That doesn't mean that we are not still going to sin. We wil never be "perfect" this side of Heaven. What it does mean is that In God's Eyes, we are SAVED from the eternal consequences of our sins because we have accepted the forgiving grace of Jesus. Salvation is given through grace; not through our deeds. If we cannot earn it through our own merit (the Bible clearly states that) then we caanot lose it through deeds. The Bible says the only unpardonable sin is denying the Holy Spirit. Which makes sense to me given that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus that dwells within us. If deny the Holy Spirit, we are denying Jesus.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
So many interpretations.....so little time.

If God only had a prophet or someone he spoke to today like ancient times......THEN we might learn something.

o well.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
AllisonW70 said:
John 10:28-29
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I interpret this to mean no man can pluck you from the Lord's hand.....NO MAN......that includes me and you!
Hi, Allyson.

Are you saying that once we "confess Christ," nothing more is expected of us? I would be interested to hear your interpretation of these three verses of scripture:

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

James 2:22, 24 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I'll tell you how I interpret them:

(Matthew 7:21) I believe that in the Savior's own words, obedience to God's commandments is required for entrance into His presence. Lip service alone is insufficient.

(Hebrews 5:9) Jesus Christ is the means by which the truly repentent may be forgiven of their sins.

(James 2:22,24) While works cannot save, it is by our works that we demonstrate the sincerity of our words. In other words, our faith must be a living faith, and not a dead faith.

Also, I believe that no one sin is greater than another.
But in John 19:10-11, we read Jesus words to Pilate in which he specifically describes Judas' sin as being more serious than Pilate's sin:

Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

When we are saved, we are washed clean from all sin, past, present and future, in God's eyes. That doesn't mean that we are not still going to sin. We wil never be "perfect" this side of Heaven. What it does mean is that In God's Eyes, we are SAVED from the eternal consequences of our sins because we have accepted the forgiving grace of Jesus. Salvation is given through grace; not through our deeds. If we cannot earn it through our own merit (the Bible clearly states that) then we caanot lose it through deeds. The Bible says the only unpardonable sin is denying the Holy Spirit. Which makes sense to me given that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus that dwells within us. If deny the Holy Spirit, we are denying Jesus.
I agree that no matter how hard we may try, we are incapable of perfection. Unlike you, I don't see salvation as being an event but a process and I never use the word "save" in the present tense, believing, as I do, that "...he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." I do believe in a promise of salvation and that we can have this promise at any point during our lives. It believe that it requires that we enter into a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. Living up to the terms of this covenant -- i.e. continued obedience, including repentance when we have sinned -- will assure us of salvation. But we have been given free will, and just as we can choose to recognize Christ's atoning sacrifice, we can subsequently choose to turn our back on Him. If we do, we will pay the consequences.
 

Genna

Member
How many sins does the christian have to do before their salvation is lost, 1,100,1000?
Is Christianity like Islam where we enter into paradise by our good behviour and works? If that is the case then I have not a chance, LOL!!!
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Genna said:
How many sins does the christian have to do before their salvation is lost, 1,100,1000?
It doesn't work that way. When we stand before God to be judged, He isn't going to weigh our good deeds against our sins and permit us to enter Heaven if the scale tips in our favor.
 

Genna

Member
Katzpur said:
It doesn't work that way. When we stand before God to be judged, He isn't going to weigh our good deeds against our sins and permit us to enter Heaven if the scale tips in our favor.

So then how does a christian lose their salvation?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Genna said:
So then how does a christian lose their salvation?
Well, first off, I don't believe that anybody is "saved" in the present tense of the word. I believe we are saved if we "endure to the end." Since it is impossible to lose something you never had in the first place, the question doesn't really make sense from the LDS perspective. But, trying to answer from a more traditional Christian approach, I'd say that God expects us to put our money where our mouth is, to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. I believe that Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of the repentant sinner and not for the sins of the person who is willing to do no more than offer lip service to Him.
 

Genna

Member
What does it mean to "endure to the end"? Does this mean to continue to do good until we die? If so, is this not the same as working our way to heaven such as the Islamic belief of entering into paradise? And if God is not going to weigh our good deeds against our sins then why must we continue to do good until the end if this is what you are saying. This sounds confussing.
 
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