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Christianity - Life Before Life?

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Squirt, Feb 20, 2006.

  1. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting this thread because I'm intrigued by the Mormon idea of a pre-mortal life. I started a thread, back when I first came to RF, about how I can't shake this feeling I have that I existed before I was born -- not as a different person, but as me. That thread didn't really elicit many responses, so I'm going to try again.

    I'm putting this in the debate forum instead of in the LDS discussion forum because, even though I would like to hear the LDS perspective, I am also interested in hearing the other side of the issue. So, what do you all think? Did we begin our existence at birth (or maybe at conception) or at some prior time? I'll probably ask more questions as we go along, but this much should get us started.

    Could we start with the LDS belief, please? (Somebody said something about this as it pertained to Revelation 12, but I can't remember who it was or in what thread.) Thank you!
     
  2. angellous_evangellous

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    I recommend that you consult the Encyclopedia of Mormonism at a local library http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_of_Mormonism. The articles for "human," "Adam," and "spirit children" should be good background for the discussion. Compare to Plato's doctrine of immortality of the soul:

    Plato, Meno, 81b


    Socrates
    They were certain priests and priestesses who have studied so as to be able to give a reasoned account of their ministry; and Pindar also [81b] and many another poet of heavenly gifts. As to their words, they are these: mark now, if you judge them to be true. They say that the soul of man is immortal, and at one time comes to an end, which is called dying, and at another is born again, but never perishes. Consequently one ought to live all one's life in the utmost holiness.For from whomsoever Persephone shall accept requital for ancient wrong,6 the souls of these she restores in the ninth year to the upper sun again; from them arise glorious kings and men of splendid might and surpassing wisdom, and for all remaining time are they called holy heroes amongst mankind. Pind. Fr. 133 Bergk Seeing then that the soul is immortal and has been born many times, and has beheld all things both in this world and in the nether realms, she has acquired knowledge of all and everything; so that it is no wonder that she should be able to recollect all that she knew before about virtue and other things. For as [81d] all nature is akin, and the soul has learned all things, there is no reason why we should not, by remembering but one single thing--an act which men call learning--discover everything else, if we have courage and faint not in the search; since, it would seem, research and learning are wholly recollection. So we must not hearken to that captious argument: it would make us idle, and is pleasing only to the indolent ear, whereas the other makes us energetic [81e] and inquiring. Putting my trust in its truth, I am ready to inquire with you into the nature of virtue.
     
  3. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I haven't spent a lot of time, personally, on this subject, but I believe the soul to be immortal. I'm trying to reconcile whether or not I believe in reincarnation, too.
     
  4. angellous_evangellous

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    Where are the LDS who can talk about this?? :confused:
     
  5. mormonman

    mormonman Ammon is awesome

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    We believe that we are spirit children of our Heavenly Father and Mother. We believe that before we came to live on to live on earth we lived w/ Heavenly Father(God) and Heavenly Mother. Heavenly Father is an exalted man. He lived on an earth such as this, and proved Himself worthy to be exalted. The purpose of our existance is to be able to progress. While we were in the Pre-mortal life we could learn and progress. There were different degrees of knowledge the spirits had. It's kind of like now. There are smarter kids and not so smart kids. We needed to be able to gain a body, like God, to progress farther. So, a plan was presented to us. There would be a place created(earth) that we could gain a body, prove ourselves worthy to live w/ our Father in Heaven again, and continue to progress, maybe even to godhood. God knew, that not all of the spirits would make it back to live w/ Him. He knew that there had to be an atonement for the sins of the world. When this plan was presented two spirits came forward. One of the spirits said that he had a plan that all of the spirits would go down to earth, gain a body, and be able to return to Heaven. This plan would take away the free agency of man. The spirit that presented this plan was Lucifer. The other spirit was Jehovah. He said that He would go down and atone for the sins of the world. He would be the mediator between God and Man. Obviously Christ's plan was accepted. One third of the host of Heaven followed the plan of Lucifer and were cast into hell. They had a perfect knowledge of the truth, and rebelled against it. Shoot I know I'm missing stuff. This gives a real good explaination- http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1117-1,00.html . Make sure you go to the "learn more" thing to continue.
    http://scriptures.lds.org/abr/3 - This gives a good explaination too, especially from verse 21 to the end.
    :162: Angels don't have wings! lol
     
  6. SoyLeche

    SoyLeche meh...

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    Pretty good, except that you are reinforcing the common misconception that most LDS people have that Lucifer and Christ both presented plans. Actually, God the Father presented His plan. This plan required a Savior, and Chirst volunteered - which is good, because he was the one the Father wanted to do it all along. Lucifer didn't care for the plan and came up with his own.
     
  7. mormonman

    mormonman Ammon is awesome

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  8. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    I feel God knew us before we were conceived but not in the same way the LDS do...I feel He was the one in charge at the beginning of the earth, sun, moon, stars as well as everything that is to come on the earth...to include man. Just because I have a human mind and can not explain things doesn't mean God does not know what goes where and when....to include people. How else would God know the numbers of hairs on our head at any given time?:)
     
  9. Stick of Joseph

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    This is from another forum as an answer to another question but I believe it adresses yours as well.
    When I was about 16 years old I asked my dad the same question. He smiled and looked at me and asked me to recall our purpose for coming too earth. I thought about it and as I grew in the church I began to understand. We were put on this earth to progress. When we were in heaven with god we had no knowledge of sin, because we had not experience it, like when you try to describe color to a blind man. God could not show us in words or acting because if God sinned he would cease to be God. So he gave us our first choice. He told us if we went to earth we could obtain body's.
    Satan had another plan, he saw that some of us were not going to make it. He said why not just create a world without sin? Which of coarse is the opposite of what we want. He got angry when God rejected his plan and took the ones who did not want to risk it and they went out of heaven. The rest of us chose God and decided we would go to earth.
    God knows when and where we will sin, but he will not interfere with it, because he knows if he interferes the plan of salvation will fail.
    You are here on earth because you chose to be on Gods side. You took a risk being here and we all are trying to get back together.
     
  10. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link. It's taking me awhile to get through it, but it's interesting. I know that somewhere in the Bible it speaks of our spirits returning to God. To me, that makes sense only if our spirits have been with God at sometime in the past. You can't very well return to someplace you've never been. On the other hand, why isn't this belief made more clear in the Bible? You're kind of left with no definite answers.
     
  11. Geoffthe3rd

    Geoffthe3rd Member

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    We all have that sense of feeling we come from the past, but the one question i have about that theory is. When have we ever had the same amount of people on this earth as we do today, and if we come back as the "same person" (im not sure if you mean by looks, personality, or spirit) then why is there no record? My main problem is the whole population thing in history
     
  12. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    I believe my soul always has been in some, way, shape or form with God.

    God said to Jeremiah...

    "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you..." Jeremiah 1:4-5
     
  13. Geoffthe3rd

    Geoffthe3rd Member

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    I can agree with that
     
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