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Christianity : Is Christendom strengthened by Bahaullah?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
You now know from previous discussions as to what Muhammad told the Christians about Christ in the Quran. It is clear that Muhammad told them, that the the Trinity was false doctrine.
You will also know that Muhammad confirmed Christ was a Messenger.
Regards Tony
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
For some it feels weakened, for others it feels strengthened I think
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
It is not.
That is your opinion, not a fact. Some will disagree, others not.
Right, please?
So, NO. I disagree with this one
= = =
Two wrongs don't make "right".
A) 2 equals more than 5
B) 4 equals more than 5
Wrong ... both are wrong on themselves. Right, please?
A) + B) equals more than 5
Right ... together they are right. Right, please?
Right, please?
So, NO. I have to disagree with both your claims.
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stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
"me", does this mean "Tony Bristow-Stagg
"me", does this mean "God"
"me", does this mean "me"
Or is this another way of saying "IMHO"?
I miss the words "In my humble opinion" here
Without it you are directly belittling Christian Faith given by God, using Jesus to be sufficient. I can't believe this to be true.
So a Saint meditating in the Himalayas, never heard of Bahaullah, immersed in Divinity, can not know it, but one accepting Bahaullah can?
Are you saying here, that besides Jesus His Message + accepting Bahaullah etc. one also needs Dharma (eastern line) to fully and truly know?
So you mean to say that all have to accept all before truly know?
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Right ... no need for names. Agreed. Also no need for Bahaullah. We see past names to the Essence of all Faith
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Very true. Luckily they also tell you to do similar things ... the whole LOVE thing.
Creative
.Lovers of New Testament rather find it enriching. Some might even consider keeping just the New Testament (no dilution at all)
Lovers of Bible without New Testament will find the addition diluting their version of the Bible
What really dilutes "things" IMO is when both above "Lovers" tell each other "my way is the Highway"
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Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Pretty much this. Baha'i is basically meaningless, or worse, probably heretical to a Christian.
In fact, having known next to nothing about Baha'i, I looked it up and decided it is very wrong to accept this as part of your core belief system.
It is (mostly) okay to accept portions of Taoism if you're a Christian as it's mostly a philosophy, and has no strong stance on religion, theistic or atheistic. It's mostly okay to accept aspects of Buddhism, since some of this can help a Christian understand the Body of Christ, and though they don't agree on everything there are common enough points that they can coexist.
Can You Be A Buddhist Christian?
It's probably okay for a Christian to accept Shintoism, ecen though admittedly it's rather odd. Shintos don't really worship gods so much as value everything in nature due to belief in spirits. Your religion would become decidedly more panentheist, but recalling this phrase, "God is in all things, as God created all things," and then treating stuff with more respect, and you should be golden.
It's okay to accept Jews, as despite Christ dying on the cross, Christ was a Jew, so blaming the Jews for this is exactly not what Jesus would want.
It's okay for a Christian to tolerate Hinduism, though its caste system is unjust.
It's not okay to tolerate some religions, because they actively want to subvert or destroy Christianity.
And Baha'i? Not okay. Why, you ask?
Well, Bahai (I'm annoyed with having to keep using an apostrophe) is essentially religious wishy-washiness. It accepts all religious truth as equal. This is akin to the incredibly destructive moral relativism and its cousin cultural relativism. "All cultures and practices are just as good!" Okay then, what about killing babies? What about slavery? What about a caste system that keeps you stuck in certain jobs all of your life despite talent or desire? What about burning wives with they husband? What about arranging marriage with some much older man? Or being one of multiple wives? Or stoning people or throwing acid on them because they don't wear a dress code? Or mutilating and shaming the God-given sexual beauty of women?
While Christians are told to forgive all sins, it also says "If we say we have no sins, we deceive ourselves," so acting like there is no sin about these things in the first place is gravely wrong.
There is also the endorsement of a unified world. This sounds great, it sounds lovibg and peaceful and all that... until you remember that it is the desire of Antichrist (whose name is World Government) to divide the lands into Ten Kingdoms. To not have sovereign nations. This is at odds with what God wants which is freedom and justice, not a series of big centralized governments followed by local rulers to watch everyone.
In other words, while Bahai sounds peaceful and benevolent, unlike some of the world's religions that are marginally compatible with Christianity, Bahai along with Islam and Mormonism should be rejected. These three either undermine Christianity in such a way that nothing helpful can be learned, or actively want to destroy it.
Thank you so much for the well thought out reply. Unfortunately a million such replies wouldn't alter some Baha'i mindsets one iota.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
IMO that alone is no problem at all; even a positive personal thought. As it it just their personal belief. All are free to believe as they like, also Bahai.
The problem starts, when they believe like in Animal Farm and claim "all are equal but Bahai is more equal" .... "all eventually need Bahai"
And we had a thread about this the last few days, and I have seen a few Bahais who explicitly said that they believe this way.
So I agree with you, that there are plenty of Bahai who think this way. Only 1 told me, he disagrees with this, but the others were not corrected.
So I gave them the advantage of the doubt like I always do, although @Vinayaka warned me by granting me 2 "optimistic" frubals I think.
And it appears that the majority of the Bahai think this way (in Holland all Bahai I met ... like 100 think this way ... they told me).
You seem to be following the pattern a lot of people do with this ... at first it sounds hunky dory (as it once did to me) but then the longer you talk, the more it becomes troublesome. I think that's a common pattern with the Bahai' encounter.
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stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Yes, and I understand why. They are one of the few who tell "all religions are from God and good". BUT 90% of the Bahai I met continue afterwards telling "but finally all need to accept Bahai, to reach the highest goal". And with that last phrase they kill in 1 blow all the good created before.
Typo ..... we ..... meaning any one of us. Regards Tony
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The key here is that it is nothing to do with me. This is what God has offered through Jesus the Christ and Baha'u'llah.
A couple of bible references;
John 14:28
John 10:30
"The Voice of the Son of Man is calling aloud from the sacred veil: 'Here am I, here am I, O God, My God!' The Father hath come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom of God is fulfilled." (The Words of Bahá'u'lláh, p.104)
It all comes back to our own heart. All of what has been said, by every one of Gods Messengers is always in this world and available to us, it is that word that is the cause of our creation.
Time and space does not come into play if our heart was not veiled by many veils. Personally I have many, as we remove them we realise how many more we have, in this world I am not sure we could remove them all, can we see beyond the matrix we are in?
Now look back to the time the Bab and Baha'u'llah came, consider all around the world there were hearts that knew this event was happening.
The question then becomes, why did we not see it and why do we reject God's Mesengers, everything is made new with that message and all hearts can find that message, if they are looking. I can also say from experience and IMHO, even if you find the Name/s that gave the Message/s, it does not mean one has found the essence of that Message.
Regards Tony
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I am sharing that all Gods Messengers are from the One source.
I can not Love and understand what is the Message God gave without accepting all the Messages given by God. Those Messages, in many Names have appeared all around the world. God does not leave anyone alone and without guidance.
It is us that has seperated them into Abrahamic and Dharma lines, saying they are different concepts.
The more I look, the more I see that they are from the same source, the differences that I see, are when man has added to the original source/teaching.
It is those man made interpretations that have always been why mankind has rejected God's Messengers.
They One and all have asked us to look beyond those differences and find in each other the good that is built within us. It is only then, that the differences we have made, can be rent asunder.
Regards Tony
To me all the Names are part of creation, without one and all of God's Names, this creation does not exist.
Thus what I see it means to look past all names is not to deny them, it is to acknowledge the source of all Names is One God.
To me it is like when we see the beauty of white light can only be appreciated when we see all the refrated lightwaves in a rainbow. Once we know all those colours are of One source, God, we can then return to full love of the source.
The Bible records it in this way;
Zechariah 14:9 "And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."
Regards Tony
That will always be a quandry then.
Christ said he who has known me has known the Father. Thus a Christian (follower of Christ) by definition of that passage, is one who has known Christ and the Father.
Christ used the same example as to what it was to be a true Jew;
John 5:46-47
46 "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Regards Tony
Not a quandary, just a fact. Christians, if they remain Christian, do not accept Baha'ullah as a prophet. It's insulting to other religions when you claim your prophet is part of their faith. But go ahead, insult people. That's your right.
Before we can draw a conclusion like you have stated, one would have to ask the Jew, that then became a Christain, if they beleive they were not loyal to their Jewish Faith. Likewise a Christain that becomes a Baha'i and that is also applicable to any person that has chosen to partake of a new covernant, given by God.
It could be by accepting the new covenant, that choice made them what they originally claimed to be and by rejecting the new covenant, it may mean they are not what they claim to be.
Personally I see one becomes a stronger Christain when they partake of all the Covenants given by God. I can not control other peoples choices and the way they choose to feel about faith. It could be it is they should look deeper into why they feel thay are insulted.
Regards Tony