Christianity has a real dark history,Has it changed much?

[Zita]

Early witch hunts were said to be the deepest shame of western civ. The church created the elaborate concept of devil worshipers and witches and witchcraft out of their view points of women which were foul.

 

[whirlingmerc]

actually.... there are eternal consequences

 

[Zita]

actually.... there are eternal consequences

of what?

 

[Zita]

..too many fallacies, and cheap shots taking place here..

1. You cannot condemn an entire ideology because 'some' do not adhere to the standards of the ideology.
2. HUMAN BEINGS, and their flaws and tendencies, cause evil, not 'Christianity!'
3. It would need to be shown that the ideology is promoting the behavior being criticized.. genocide, oppression, murder, etc. Christianity, as an ideology, promotes the opposite.
4. Christianity has been a beacon of freedom, enlightenment, and equality, and is the foundation of western civilization.
5. In the last 50 yrs, a constant propaganda stream demonizing Christianity, and blaming it for all the evil in the world has been indoctrinated in progressive institutions, competing to be the dominant worldview.

No cheap shots,just the truth of how Christianity began.This is the reason for this thread,to shed some light on it, and the effects it has had on modern Christianity.
Obviously you have not done research on the history of Christianity and the church, you are clueless
.Christianity foundations were built on a lot control and condemning and degrading of people and of hurt and curtailing and containing spirituality,as not to have a personal private relationship with God.
The first centuries of christian era beliefs formed the ideological foundation for the dark side of the Christian church's history, all had to follow and they did for fear of damnation.
Early Christianity said,taught and did horrible things,and yes caused evil doings,not human beings with flaws and tendencies!! they murdered they caused oppression, they tortured and etc.Christianity ideology did not promote the opposite of these, ,it promoted all the shameful acts.
No, Christianity has not been a beacon of freedom. it started out taking away freedom by telling them they had to obey the church ,That if you didn't do as the church says God will deal with you,you were to fear God and didn't allow women to speak in church Women had to have sex when their husbands wanted to even if they didn't,where is the freedom in that?
they didn't want people to be enlightened at all,that's why they said any supernatural powers are evil,that you can only learn about God though the church not from personal inquiry and not from anyone's own experience they wanted full control of the people
.Equality (haha) women were degraded and treated terrible, they were said to be the devil's gateway and were beneath men,women had to submit to men then they were accused of being witches and witchcraft,because wise women knew how to heal people,also used herbs for different illness, and may have the gift of seeing the future, or women who had moles,birthmarks,or freckles, they were of the devil and witches.Giving birth was believed to defile both child and mother,they had to be purified They also accused women for a lot of things that would go wrong calling them witches just because!!!t killing thousands and thousands of women,entire villages of women killed by Christians,because they were said to be witches. It was called the shocking nightmare,the foulest crime, the deepest shame of Western Civilization.It's foundation was corrupt,from the start.

 

[Zita]

I think your post needs some citations, I further think it is a hodgepoge of misinformation, I further think your reference to reincarnation is baloney it wasn´t even discussed at the first council of Jerusalem nor the second at Nicea. I am very well versed in Church history, and doctrines, especially of the Reformation...I would like to know what crackpot you got this from, or, or, or, are you the originator

“In the first five hundred years of Christianity, reincarnation was most certainly on the main stage. It was a prominent and well- respected merchant in the bazaar of Christian theology.

A significant number of early church pillars such as St. Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Justin Martyr, and St. Jerome believed in the doctrine of reincarnation. In his Confessions, St. Augustine ponders the common sense viability of reincarnation.

early Christians believed in reincarnation? Although some may find this idea unbelievable, several Christian sources suggest that many centuries ago, it was common to believe that one does not come to Earth just once, but various times.

The oldest texts provide two concepts of resurrection: spiritual and bodily. The spiritual rebirth by the Holy Spirit is also known as being born again. A bodily resurrection of a human could also be called reincarnation. According to the first important father of the early Orthodox Church, Origen (185 – 254 AD), the soul exists before birth. He suggested that pre-existence was found in the Hebrew scriptures .
well versed in church history huh?

 

[Zita]

And so your point exactly? I am not defending here just pointing out that christianity tends to be pretty normal and thats the way it is.

Be careful with christians are xyz thats so young. In history factually christians have been killed by christians for being heros just like jesus. In history more times than we can count christians have been on two sides of the debates. To broad brush the faith means you cant see the diamonds. If you cant see the diamonds you have much to learn.

If you can't see what my point is, then o'well.
you feel all that I wrote is normal? wow you are special
and what does your comment mean?.I have to be careful with Christians, why?

 

[Zita]

553 AD the Second Council of Constantinople

yes this is when they decided to do away with reincarnation, you can't do away with it means it was there.

 

[Zita]

Only the Gnostics believe in that **** and they were sorts of ****** up. Bunch of nonsensical Bull**** masquerading as something profound and transcendent when all it was is a fraud and a mass of confusion

But all I said was Early Christians did believe in it,and Christian Gnostics are Christians.
The oldest texts provide two concepts of resurrection: spiritual and bodily. The spiritual rebirth by the Holy Spirit is also known as being born again. A bodily resurrection of a human could also be called reincarnation. According to the first important father of the early Orthodox Church, Origen (185 – 254 AD), the soul exists before birth. He suggested that pre-existence was found in the Hebrew scriptures A significant number of early church pillars such as St. Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Justin Martyr, and St. Jerome believed in the doctrine of reincarnation

 

[usfan]

shots,just the truth of how Christianity began.This is the reason for this thread,to shed some light on it, and the effects it has had on modern Christianity.
Obviously you have not done research on the history of Christianity and the church, you are clueless

The first centuries of christian era beliefs formed the ideological foundation for the dark side of the Christian church's history, all had to follow and they did for fear of damnation.
Early Christianity said,taught and did horrible things,and yes caused evil doings,

Yes, like i said, cheap shots & revisionist history, all to promote an anti-christian narrative, that has been pumping out propaganda non stop for the last 50 yrs, or so.

You prove my point:
5. In the last 50 yrs, a constant propaganda stream demonizing Christianity, and blaming it for all the evil in the world has been indoctrinated in progressive institutions, competing to be the dominant worldview.

 

[Zita]

Yes, like i said, cheap shots & revisionist history, all to promote an anti-christian narrative, that has been pumping out propaganda non stop for the last 50 yrs, or so.

You prove my point:
5. In the last 50 yrs, a constant propaganda stream demonizing Christianity, and blaming it for all the evil in the world has been indoctrinated in progressive institutions, competing to be the dominant worldview.

like I said no cheap shots just the truth oh yea and I am not trying to promote anti-Christian at all, I myself had no idea about the dark side of Christianity ,I was amazed and I know know why I never felt good or comfortable with being a Christian and into the church. I always felt a disconnect and felt like there is more to living then what it teaches, I hated the dogma so much and their closed minds about certain subjects that have to do with spirituality. I've been a witch since I could remember and seeings how they treated us women and how they tortured us and killed witches and those who really wasn't, My feelings about the church and Christianity all make sense now.So, although you call it propaganda and didn't care much about the subject. I found it very educational and interesting and also answered a lot of my questions.,
have a nice day.

 

[usfan]

I myself had no idea about the dark side of Christianity

But after being bombarded with anti-christian propaganda , now you do. My point is made.

I hated the dogma so much and their closed minds about certain subjects that have to do with spirituality

you don't believe in biblical Christianity, but something else. Got it. But why the need to bash and belittle Christianity with false caricatures?

My feelings about the church and Christianity all make sense now

Those are feelings, and do not mean your hostile opinions about xtianity are based on fact. They are not. Those feelings are based on anti-christian propaganda.
You can believe what you want, and nobody is begrudging you anything. But why do you 'feel' compelled to bash and distort the message of Jesus ?

although you call it propaganda and didn't care much about the subject

Oh, i care.. it just is an exercise in futility, to oppose the juggernaut of propaganda and distortions about the Only Hope for humanity, in a lost world.

 

[shmogie]

“In the first five hundred years of Christianity, reincarnation was most certainly on the main stage. It was a prominent and well- respected merchant in the bazaar of Christian theology.

A significant number of early church pillars such as St. Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Justin Martyr, and St. Jerome believed in the doctrine of reincarnation. In his Confessions, St. Augustine ponders the common sense viability of reincarnation.

early Christians believed in reincarnation? Although some may find this idea unbelievable, several Christian sources suggest that many centuries ago, it was common to believe that one does not come to Earth just once, but various times.

The oldest texts provide two concepts of resurrection: spiritual and bodily. The spiritual rebirth by the Holy Spirit is also known as being born again. A bodily resurrection of a human could also be called reincarnation. According to the first important father of the early Orthodox Church, Origen (185 – 254 AD), the soul exists before birth. He suggested that pre-existence was found in the Hebrew scriptures .
well versed in church history huh?

First, an Orthodox writer in the early years does not speak for Christianity as a whole.

Second, conflating reincarnation with the Christian concepts of the resurrection and the spirit is disingenuous, the two concepts are distinctly different.

Origen, was not an Apostle, he did not write with divine guidance. He had an opinion, with no Biblical support for his opinion. He was in error, and hisbidea of the pre existant soul is and was rejected.

True Christian doctrine is found in the Bible, not in the opinions of men.

Reincarnation as understood in Eastern religions was never accepted or believed by Christianity, at any time.

 

[Zita]

But after being bombarded with anti-christian propaganda , now you do. My point is made.
you don't believe in biblical Christianity, but something else. Got it. But why the need to bash and belittle Christianity with false caricatures?

Those are feelings, and do not mean your hostile opinions about xtianity are based on fact. They are not. Those feelings are based on anti-christian propaganda.
You can believe what you want, and nobody is begrudging you anything. But why do you 'feel' compelled to bash and distort the message of Jesus ?

Oh, i care.. it just is an exercise in futility, to oppose the juggernaut of propaganda and distortions about the Only Hope for humanity, in a lost world.

ignorance is not a good look.

 

[Zita]

First, an Orthodox writer in the early years does not speak for Christianity as a whole.

Second, conflating reincarnation with the Christian concepts of the resurrection and the spirit is disingenuous, the two concepts are distinctly different.

Origen, was not an Apostle, he did not write with divine guidance. He had an opinion, with no Biblical support for his opinion. He was in error, and hisbidea of the pre existant soul is and was rejected.

True Christian doctrine is found in the Bible, not in the opinions of men.

Reincarnation as understood in Eastern religions was never accepted or believed by Christianity, at any time.

think what you may.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

yep, you've a got learning disorder; cause plagiarism is reciting someone else's work just as it is and saying it's mine,which I haven't done or copying word for word and passing off as mine,which I haven't done or taking someones idea which I haven't done .My heading is worded different from the book posted is only 1 sources I got info.from. I am using different materials,and other members info.my idea is different from that book.my reason is to compare all the different doctrine,beliefs,motivation,ideas,and convictions between old era's and new era. Do you understand that?

Rewording things is still plagarism if you dont cite your sources. It has been demonstrated you are plagarising a source, and you should change your OP to be in compliance with forum policy.

 

[Zita]

Rewording things is still plagarism if you dont cite your sources. It has been demonstrated you are plagarising a source, and you should change your OP to be in compliance with forum policy.

If you were paying attention you would have seen that I gave the name of the book I read and referenced to. Don't you have something better to do then trying to criticize me,try to make sure of what you are saying before causing yourself to look pretty stupid.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you were paying attention you would have seen that I gave the name of the book I read and referenced to. Don't you have something better to do then trying to criticize me,try to make sure of what you are saying before causing yourself to look pretty stupid.

Your OP doesnt include it, and it should. And Im trying to help you, because plagiarism is actually a pretty big thing - it's basically theft. Its reason for college students to be expelled, turn authors into former authors, and it is against forum policy.

 

[Zita]

Your OP doesnt include it, and it should. And Im trying to help you, because plagiarism is actually a pretty big thing - it's basically theft. Its reason for college students to be expelled, turn authors into former authors, and it is against forum policy.

Rewording things is still plagarism if you dont cite your sources. It has been demonstrated you are plagarising a source, and you should change your OP to be in compliance with forum policy.

no its not on thread however I gave the info to whoever wanted to know in their post, do you know how many posts I've read obviously from documents and sources with out giving no info at all of where they got it from, so if you gonna be the plagarism police you need to harrass everyone not just me. You seem like you have a lonely life with a lot of time on yo hand. You act like this is your job and you getting paid. (Sad)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

no its not on thread however I gave the info to whoever wanted to know in their post, do you know how many posts I've read obviously from documents and sources with out giving no info at all of where they got it from, so if you gonna be the plagarism police you need to harrass everyone not just me. You seem like you have a lonely life with a lot of time on yo hand. You act like this is your job and you getting paid. (Sad)

Whats sad is you refuse help, advice, and information on how to avoid what really is a big thing, and instead youd rather prance about in ignorance, making personal insults and telling people they are mentally ill. Who is really lonely? Someone who tries to help someone avoid a serious mistake, or someone who resorts childish insults to defend their error?

 

[Zita]

The

The church and Christianity has demonstrated a disregard for human freedom,dignity,and self-determination.
It has attempted to control,contain and confine spirituality,the relationship between an individual and God.As a result, Christianity has helped create a society in which people are alienated not only from each other but also from the divine.
The Christian Church since Old have embedded in the belief of a solely masculine authoritarian God who demands unquestioning obedience and who punishes those who doesn't.also that fear was essential to sustain Christians.
.Within the 1st centuries of the Christian era they formed the ideological foundation for much of the dark side of the Christian Church history (100-400 C.E.).
Christian church based not upon love and support but upon fear. The Bible repeatedly exhorts people to fear God and keep his commandments, this was the duty of man.It was also in belief that God must be prone to anger to demand disciple,at this time God was to believed to have masculine and feminine aspects.
One shroud accept and submit to whatever the Church reaches.
Between 200-500 C.E. Christianity became the official religion for the Roman Empire. and they revised Christian writings to make Christianity more acceptable, they chose form many gospels and writings to construct the bible,them the church edited ti's messages with each translation and Gospel scholars showed that a few of the gospels9scriptures contradict one another,but let it remain.
300-500C.E. the church formulated it's doctrine to justifies it's use of force in order .
Some of the doctrine is as follows:a person can have free will and responsible for his actions.
Condemning sexual please because it is evil.
Th Church formulated it's position regarding reincarnation. The Christian scholar believed and that the human soul exists before it is incarnated into a physical body that the human soul passe from one body to another on earth until he is reunited with God after total enlightenment..It wasn't until 533 the Second Council decided to remove that from the doctrine, and told the Christians not to believe this at all. His reasoning was because if a soul continues to live and incarnate lifetime after lifetime he won't be subject to damnation, he had to maintain that control. I got more info to come.
It sounds the same to me so far, except reincarnation, what do you think?

I am sick of being harassed by Shadow wolf about plagarism in this post, So she won't have an anorism or something I will post the book I got most my info.
THE DARK SIDE OF CHRISTIAN HISTORY BY HELEN ELLERBE.
(Hope she can breathe now)

The church and Christianity has demonstrated a disregard for human freedom,dignity,and self-determination.
It has attempted to control,contain and confine spirituality,the relationship between an individual and God.As a result, Christianity has helped create a society in which people are alienated not only from each other but also from the divine.
The Christian Church since Old have embedded in the belief of a solely masculine authoritarian God who demands unquestioning obedience and who punishes those who doesn't.also that fear was essential to sustain Christians.
.Within the 1st centuries of the Christian era they formed the ideological foundation for much of the dark side of the Christian Church history (100-400 C.E.).
Christian church based not upon love and support but upon fear. The Bible repeatedly exhorts people to fear God and keep his commandments, this was the duty of man.It was also in belief that God must be prone to anger to demand disciple,at this time God was to believed to have masculine and feminine aspects.
One shroud accept and submit to whatever the Church reaches.
Between 200-500 C.E. Christianity became the official religion for the Roman Empire. and they revised Christian writings to make Christianity more acceptable, they chose form many gospels and writings to construct the bible,them the church edited ti's messages with each translation and Gospel scholars showed that a few of the gospels9scriptures contradict one another,but let it remain.
300-500C.E. the church formulated it's doctrine to justifies it's use of force in order .
Some of the doctrine is as follows:a person can have free will and responsible for his actions.
Condemning sexual please because it is evil.
Th Church formulated it's position regarding reincarnation. The Christian scholar believed and that the human soul exists before it is incarnated into a physical body that the human soul passe from one body to another on earth until he is reunited with God after total enlightenment..It wasn't until 533 the Second Council decided to remove that from the doctrine, and told the Christians not to believe this at all. His reasoning was because if a soul continues to live and incarnate lifetime after lifetime he won't be subject to damnation, he had to maintain that control. I got more info to come.
It sounds the same to me so far, except reincarnation, what do you think?

member: 66399"]The church and Christianity has demonstrated a disregard for human freedom,dignity,and self-determination.
It has attempted to control,contain and confine spirituality,the relationship between an individual and God.As a result, Christianity has helped create a society in which people are alienated not only from each other but also from the divine.
The Christian Church since Old have embedded in the belief of a solely masculine authoritarian God who demands unquestioning obedience and who punishes those who doesn't.also that fear was essential to sustain Christians.
.Within the 1st centuries of the Christian era they formed the ideological foundation for much of the dark side of the Christian Church history (100-400 C.E.).
Christian church based not upon love and support but upon fear. The Bible repeatedly exhorts people to fear God and keep his commandments, this was the duty of man.It was also in belief that God must be prone to anger to demand disciple,at this time God was to believed to have masculine and feminine aspects.
One shroud accept and submit to whatever the Church reaches.
Between 200-500 C.E. Christianity became the official religion for the Roman Empire. and they revised Christian writings to make Christianity more acceptable, they chose form many gospels and writings to construct the bible,them the church edited ti's messages with each translation and Gospel scholars showed that a few of the gospels9scriptures contradict one another,but let it remain.
300-500C.E. the church formulated it's doctrine to justifies it's use of force in order .
Some of the doctrine is as follows:a person can have free will and responsible for his actions.
Condemning sexual please because it is evil.
Th Church formulated it's position regarding reincarnation. The Christian scholar believed and that the human soul exists before it is incarnated into a physical body that the human soul passe from one body to another on earth until he is reunited with God after total enlightenment..It wasn't until 533 the Second Council decided to remove that from the doctrine, and told the Christians not to believe this at all. His reasoning was because if a soul continues to live and incarnate lifetime after lifetime he won't be subject to damnation, he had to maintain that control. I got more info to come.
It sounds the same to me so far, except reincarnation, what do you think?[/QUOTE]

The church and Christianity has demonstrated a disregard for human freedom,dignity,and self-determination.
It has attempted to control,contain and confine spirituality,the relationship between an individual and God.As a result, Christianity has helped create a society in which people are alienated not only from each other but also from the divine.
The Christian Church since Old have embedded in the belief of a solely masculine authoritarian God who demands unquestioning obedience and who punishes those who doesn't.also that fear was essential to sustain Christians.
.Within the 1st centuries of the Christian era they formed the ideological foundation for much of the dark side of the Christian Church history (100-400 C.E.).
Christian church based not upon love and support but upon fear. The Bible repeatedly exhorts people to fear God and keep his commandments, this was the duty of man.It was also in belief that God must be prone to anger to demand disciple,at this time God was to believed to have masculine and feminine aspects.
One shroud accept and submit to whatever the Church reaches.
Between 200-500 C.E. Christianity became the official religion for the Roman Empire. and they revised Christian writings to make Christianity more acceptable, they chose form many gospels and writings to construct the bible,them the church edited ti's messages with each translation and Gospel scholars showed that a few of the gospels9scriptures contradict one another,but let it remain.
300-500C.E. the church formulated it's doctrine to justifies it's use of force in order .
Some of the doctrine is as follows:a person can have free will and responsible for his actions.
Condemning sexual please because it is evil.
Th Church formulated it's position regarding reincarnation. The Christian scholar believed and that the human soul exists before it is incarnated into a physical body that the human soul passe from one body to another on earth until he is reunited with God after total enlightenment..It wasn't until 533 the Second Council decided to remove that from the doctrine, and told the Christians not to believe this at all. His reasoning was because if a soul continues to live and incarnate lifetime after lifetime he won't be subject to damnation, he had to maintain that control. I got more info to come.
It sounds the same to me so far, except reincarnation, what do you think?