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Featured Christianity and Schizophrenia. Does it lead there?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Nowhere Man, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    I've never heard God speak. I talk to Him all the time (prayer), but I do not receive an answer either of thought or sound. A response is more of an empathetical one, if anything at all. I do not believe that God has physically spoken with many (if any) humans at all. As His presence tends to be detrimental to the human body. The few that he has have had to be shielded from the full experience and still suffer some trauma from that experience.
     
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  3. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Existence of papers like these make psychology difficult to take seriously.
     
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  4. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    In Christianity, God doesn't talk to people in their minds except perhaps in one or two instances during their lifetimes, and it is done in a manner that usually is encountered during a sleep state.

    God has already said all that he shall to us in the Bible. That he may respond to prayers within moments, minutes, so that at times you know - it only could have been as a result of your prayer, is not speaking to us in words, but deeds.

    After prayer, we might also be guided to find the scripture that speaks to our problem we prayed about. Thus, we read what his edicts and desires are for us - this also is not hearing voices in our heads. When during my younger years, as a foreigner where I lived, my family (wife and kids, and me) ran into problems of employment which is common for people who may not be fluent in the language of the country they live in, when we prayed for help with these material needs, it always was such that when one job ran out, another one was provided in timely fashion. That also has nothing to do with hearing voices, but is again a direct prayer answer thing.

    Again, the attacks that non Christians keep on heaping on us for our faith is astounding. I would think that people who claim that things make themselves and create themselves would be more likely to end up having people in white frocks assisting them in secure places than Christians.:):)

    Don't much appreciate this kind of uninformed putting down of our faith.

    What, Buddhism with its beliefs of demons and attaining the state of Buddha sure seems to be a bit out there in the fantasy world, being reborn in some other form with this cycle going on for eons. A little too much to someone like me who thinks that death is total destruction. Who seems more anchored in reality here?!
     
  5. Laika

    Laika Warning: Thought Crime in Progress
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    The theory of Sluggishly Progressive Schizophrenia was the justification the Soviets used to locked up political dissidents in mental hospitals including people of religious belief. This continues to be a problem in China and Cuba. I'm not sympathetic with attempts to characterise religious belief as a mental illness, because it is a pseudo-scientific disguise for anti-religious bigotry built on unsubstantiated assumptions of the "sanity" and moral superiority of western, secular liberals.

    The measure of sanity in the West is conformity and is why it is popular to characterise criminals as suffering from "psychopathic" tendencies whilst treating the same behaviour by the members of the state apparatus as sane. Whilst there are very real anomalies in human behaviour which pose a physical threat to members of society, using psychological criteria in this way is a "cheap" argument to appeal to people's prejudices about mental illness because we continue to live in a society in which the fear of expressing our emotions is normal.

    It is possible that Individual Christians may have mental illness and some may have played an important historical role in its origin and development, but the overwhelming majority of Christians are and (presumably) were quite sane and acted on the basis of the most advanced scientific knowledge of their time. This doesn't mean there isn't a relationship between beliefs and personality traits (or disorders) but it deserves to be qualified as a highly uncertain area of study with far-reaching ethical implications if it were demonstrated to be true.
     
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  6. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    This isn't directed at individuals in blanket terms that all Christians everywhere are being afflicted with schizophrenia, but rather there are evidences that Christianity, as well as other theistic religions involving deities and supernatural entities happen to be triggers that can potentially activate schizophrenic behaviours in a number of individuals.


    Wikipedia snippet....

    " Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. These symptoms may cause violent behavior, either on others or themselves because of taking passages in the bible literally.[18] "
     
  7. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Ted Kaczynski - Wikipedia

    Till 1974 the DSM had homosexuality labeled as a mental disorder. Sharp bunch we are.
    HA!!!! I might use the above logic and state "99% of all mentally ill people are literate, school causes mental illness."

    Modern psychology is the study of the psyche independent of the psyche. The default setting of academics is Freud, Jung is ignored. FREUD IS THE SITH!!!. Sort of true actually,
     
  8. Laika

    Laika Warning: Thought Crime in Progress
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    Ok. fair enough.

    I could well claim to be Napoleon Bonaparte because I use history as a source of material for delusions of grandeur. Yet, we wouldn't claim that knowledge of history is a trigger or cause of mental illness. It is simply part of our cultural fabric and my willingness to believe I am Napoleon would be because of a set of associations with that historical figure that express underlying unconscious conflicts. It is a way of describing the inner world of a mental patient as they project their mental state on to the outer world.

    Why should the fact "crazy" people use religious imagery in mental illness be taken as evidence that religious imagery is the cause of mental illness? How could we actually prove that that it is a cause and not a co-incidence is what I'm saying? What is it about Theistic Religions that is special compared to thinking I am Napoleon or a Tree or a Cat?

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    The logic of the post is totally collaborated in the documentary Monte Python. Here the pythons are recording sharp intellectual understanding to empirically prove if someone is a witch or not. A profound moment when science and religion align.
    "When I was a youth, Monte Python was hilarious satire, as an elder it's now serious documentary."

     
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  10. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    A psychological trigger isn't actually the cause of a condition, so no.
     
  11. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    That's an extreme claim. ALthough there may be a higher incidence of schizophrenia in the religious, it is ridiculous to assert that "Christianity leads to schizophrenia."
     
  12. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I think it's because theistic religions engage in continual assertion and reinforcing ideologies that trigger schizophrenic episodes in people.

    It seems to start with obsession and goes from there. If it's continually encouraged, hence fuel for the fire, it's bound to have effects on people over periods of time.

    It seems historical figures like Napoleon and such, don't typically compare the level of reinforcement that religions such as Christianity is engaged in which play key influential roles in people by which various schizophrenic behaviours are manifested and developed as a result.

    Christianity is especially good at immersion, where people get drawn in and actually live out it's narratives and remains recurrent and relevant. I take that's why the abstract focused on Christianity rather than intermittent historical figures that people get obsessed with or over and become schizophrenic.
     
  13. Sirona

    Sirona Hindu Wannabe

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    I grew up as a Christian, but I've always been a religious seeker. During my psychosis, I had visions of Tibetan Buddhist deities and not of Christian ones, although my involvement in Tibetan Buddhism had been short-term, and, as I would have supposed, superficial.
     
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  14. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I think it's more that certain types of Christianity can provide cover for mental illness, thereby delaying treatment.

    And then there are those that may recognize that there's a problem but try to fix it with prayer, exorcism, etc. instead of proper treatment.

    ... but I've never seen anything to suggest that religion causes schizophrenia.

    Looks like religion can have good and bad effects on mental health, depending on its specifics:

    God Help Us? How Religion is Good (And Bad) For Mental Health
     
  15. corynski

    corynski Reality First!
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    Interesting....... you think psychology is more difficult to take seriously than religion? Thousands of gods and goddesses and religious doctrines that men have created...... and you think there is some 'reality' in religion, and it's not all just fiction? Has any 'god' ever shown up to you? Talked to you?
     
  16. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Religion does not consider itself science, but psychology does.
    Yes.
     
  17. corynski

    corynski Reality First!
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    Well, does religion consider itself reality?
     
  18. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Mine (Hinduism) does.
     
  19. corynski

    corynski Reality First!
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    And how does Hinduism determine what is real and what is not?

    I am working from the assumption that what exists is that what 'is', and that the verb 'is' requires an object that can be identified by the human senses, such as 'this metal is hard', and the word hard is known by what metal is and how it responds. Our language defines reality to us. Or I might say "A troll is _____, what? What can I say about the reality of a troll?
     
    #19 corynski, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  20. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Apart from normal empirical and rational methods of investigating physical and logical aspects of reality, Hinduism practices various reflective and meditative methods (called yoga) that provide repeatable and replicable experiences and insights that provide access to what may be called the spiritual and ethical dimensions of reality. Similar systemic methods are also found in Buddhism and Jainism, and in somewhat less systematic form in other mystical traditions.
     
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