Christianity and Hinduism

[sayak83]

Okay, Pope and Inquistitor of Hinduism. Thankfully I don't value your opinion on the matter. What arrogance. You are not my teacher here. Kali is.

You are free to believe and practice as you wish. I have nothing against nihilism per se, it's just not Hinduism. Of course, in Hinduism, Kali has nothing to do with nihilism.Kali is the embodiment of Creative Energy, and is considered by the Saktas as the fundamental Being that actualizes all that is or will ever be.

I am simply giving you information. I issue no decree.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You are free to believe and practice as you wish. I have nothing against nihilism per se, it's just not Hinduism. Of course, in Hinduism, Kali has nothing to do with nihilism.Kali is the embodiment of Creative Energy, and is considered by the Saktas as the fundamental Being that actualizes all that is or will ever be.

"Hinduism" isn't a monolith. It isn't even one religion. So I take offense at you declaring what is or isn't Hindu over a philosophical disagreement. I doubt you even know what nihilism is. I know who and what Kali is, thank you. We're going to have to agree to disagree.

You're giving opinion, not information. Don't play games with me.

 

[ajay0]

If there are ultimately no distinctions, how can you ultimately say that something is anything? Of course I'm speaking on terms of the spiritual. In our day to day lives, of course we perceive distinction and we need that in order to have any sort of order. But at the highest level of reality, It's really all the same. That is my interpretation, anyway.

Nihilism usually have a negative connotation to it which comes with an irreverence for values and virtues on the notion that they are abstractly contrived.

But virtues in Hinduism are qualities that automatically arises with meditation or awareness, and vice versa.

When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ― Swami Satchidananda


Nihilism is usually associated with violent ideologies like anarchism, communism and nazism as it provides the moral stimulus for total negation of accepted values, virtues, and norms needed for effective implementation of the ideological agenda.


“If we present a man with a concept of man which is not true, we may well corrupt him. When we present man as an automaton of reflexes, as a mind-machine, as a bundle of instincts, as a pawn of drives and reactions, as a mere product of instinct, heredity and environment, we feed the nihilism to which modern man is, in any case, prone. I became acquainted with the last stage of that corruption in my second concentration camp, Auschwitz. The gas chambers of Auschwitz were the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing but the product of heredity and environment; or as the Nazi liked to say, ‘of Blood and Soil.’ I am absolutely convinced that the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Maidanek were ultimately prepared not in some Ministry or other in Berlin, but rather at the desks and lecture halls of nihilistic scientists and philosophers.” - Viktor Frankl

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nihilism usually have a negative connotation to it which comes with an irreverence for values and virtues on the notion that they are abstractly contrived.

But virtues in Hinduism are qualities that automatically arises with meditation or awareness, and vice versa.

When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ― Swami Satchidananda


Nihilism is usually associated with violent ideologies like anarchism, communism and nazism as it provides the moral stimulus for total negation of accepted values, virtues, and norms needed for effective implementation of the ideological agenda.


“If we present a man with a concept of man which is not true, we may well corrupt him. When we present man as an automaton of reflexes, as a mind-machine, as a bundle of instincts, as a pawn of drives and reactions, as a mere product of instinct, heredity and environment, we feed the nihilism to which modern man is, in any case, prone. I became acquainted with the last stage of that corruption in my second concentration camp, Auschwitz. The gas chambers of Auschwitz were the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing but the product of heredity and environment; or as the Nazi liked to say, ‘of Blood and Soil.’ I am absolutely convinced that the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Maidanek were ultimately prepared not in some Ministry or other in Berlin, but rather at the desks and lecture halls of nihilistic scientists and philosophers.” - Viktor Frankl

I'm aware that nihilism has a bad rap, generally due to misconception. I'm just referring to the philosophical position that morality has no intrinsic foundation or truth. Marxism and Nazism aren't nihilistic movements. Anarchism could be, but not necessarily. However I am not championing the destruction of a given moral system or promoting amorality. Those are different things, in my opinion. We obviously need some sort of moral system (even of it is not inherently true) in order to function as a species to derive whatever best benefit we can.

 

[sayak83]

Nihilism usually have a negative connotation to it which comes with an irreverence for values and virtues on the notion that they are abstractly contrived.

But virtues in Hinduism are qualities that automatically arises with meditation or awareness, and vice versa.

When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ― Swami Satchidananda


Nihilism is usually associated with violent ideologies like anarchism, communism and nazism as it provides the moral stimulus for total negation of accepted values, virtues, and norms needed for effective implementation of the ideological agenda.


“If we present a man with a concept of man which is not true, we may well corrupt him. When we present man as an automaton of reflexes, as a mind-machine, as a bundle of instincts, as a pawn of drives and reactions, as a mere product of instinct, heredity and environment, we feed the nihilism to which modern man is, in any case, prone. I became acquainted with the last stage of that corruption in my second concentration camp, Auschwitz. The gas chambers of Auschwitz were the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing but the product of heredity and environment; or as the Nazi liked to say, ‘of Blood and Soil.’ I am absolutely convinced that the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Maidanek were ultimately prepared not in some Ministry or other in Berlin, but rather at the desks and lecture halls of nihilistic scientists and philosophers.” - Viktor Frankl

Even without negative connotations, nihilism implies that objective meaning and values do not exist and the world has no inherent meaning. Metaphysical nihilism believes that there is no objective existence either and all things are constructs or conventions. Hinduism rejects all three. Objective meaning and values do exist outside of human construct, and the world and our own selves are properly grounded in an objective existence. So they are opposites of each other.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Objective meaning and values do exist outside of human construct

I've yet to see proof of this.

 

[sayak83]

I'm aware that nihilism has a bad rap, generally due to misconception. I'm just referring to the philosophical position that morality has no intrinsic foundation or truth. Marxism and Nazism aren't nihilistic movements. Anarchism could be, but not necessarily. However I am not championing the destruction of a given moral system or promoting amorality. Those are different things, in my opinion. We obviously need some sort of moral system (even of it is not inherently true) in order to function as a species to derive whatever best benefit we can.

But obviously Karma is the intrinsic grounding of morality in Hinduism.

 

[sayak83]

I've yet to see proof of this.

That's a different issue all together. I am merely saying that Hinduism does not believe good, evil, ethics etc. are mere human constructs. You don't need to believe what Hinduism says on this matter.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But obviously Karma is the intrinsic grounding of morality in Hinduism.

I believe in the notion of karma but I have a problem tying it to forms of morality because that can lead to the conclusion that people have bad lives because they did bad things in past lives and so deserve it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's a different issue all together. I am merely saying that Hinduism does not believe good, evil, ethics etc. are mere human constructs. You don't need to believe what Hinduism says on this matter.

I just wish you'd stop trying to speak for Hinduism. That's my issue. Just becauae a philosophy is uncommon or not traditional does not mean it is wholly outside of it, as if it's in contradiction to it.

 

[Vinayaka]

A back posture has nothing to do with it. There are many ways to do it.

So I am open to the possibility of those practices being convergent with ours.

In my sampradaya, back posture and a linear spine has everything to do with it.

As far as being convergent, all I'm saying is I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. I think it is unwise to make any conclusions at all.

 

[Valjean]

The ascetic mystical traditions present in Catholic and Orthodox traditions do have some similarities. That much I will grant.

But Hinduism encourages Divine Madness, you could say its whole mission is to achieve it, whereas Christianity may celebrate it in a few ancient saints, but discourages it in today's flock, and has no real understanding of the phenomenon. "The peace that passeth all understanding" is hardly a comprehensive description of the mystical experience.
Christianity has no real metaphysics or mystical sects. Islam, at least, has Sufism.
The idea of mind expansion to and beyond godhood would be anathema to Christianity, it would be heresy.

 

[Jainarayan]

I totally concur. The way that similarities are found is either by distorting one or the other, or to select rare obscure passages that seem to agree. Both are so vast that that can be done, but it most surely doesn't represent either whole.

Agree w/ you here and @Valjean above. Verses and teachings from any two or five religions can be found to be almost identical. It doesn’t mean all the rest is even close. Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

 

[Vouthon]

Theologically, I think one of the main things that distinguish the two is the concept of immanence. In Hinduism (with exceptions of course) God is also immanent in the world, and the world shares the same substance/essence with God (Brahman).This idea is not that prevalent in Christianity.

An important distinction, although a nuanced one in practice.

Christian theology has traditionally been defined by substance dualism: to the effect that God and His creation are understood as two distinguishable realities, distinct substances, the latter being dependent upon the former. However we definitely do not deny divine immanence, quite the contrary this is an essential element of traditional Christian thought, best typified perhaps by the Catechism

As you imply in the above - "with exceptions" - metaphysical dualism, known as Dvaita, is actually one of the philosophical schools of interpretation of the Vedas founded by Sri Madhvacharya; alongside the Advaita (non-dualism) of Adi Shankara; the Vishishtadvaita (qualified non-dualism) of Ramanuja and the Achintya-Bheda-Abheda (inconceivable oneness and difference) of Chaitanya.

The philosophies of Ramanuja and Chaitanya, in my opinion at least, do share some important aspects in common with the ascetic mystical theology of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, which in a number of ways comes close to the idea of "inconceivable oneness and difference" held by Gaudiya Vaishnavites.

I'll go into this with relevant quotations later today.

 

[atanu]

I think that the teaching on Vak (Word) is same in Vedas and in Bible. However, emphasis in Christianity (and also in Islam) is more on dualism.