Christianity and arrogance

[ppp]

My point is that you seem to be of the opinion that the Bible was written with immoral motives.

That is a really weird thing to infer from my posts, but I am sure you have your reasons. Frankly I don't care why the Bible was written. My point was specifically to the arguments of someone who believes that Mosaic law is the word of God, and that God is all knowing and morally perfect. An all knowing and morally perfect being could not have written the Bible.

If that is not your claim, then my points do not address your position.

It wasn’t.

I a going to remind you that the Bible was written by a lot of people over a long period of time. For all that you know some of it some was written with moral goals, some with immoral goals, and some with amoral ends. Humans being humans, that is probably the case.

One can’t judge an ancient culture against modern standards. It’s like saying that an ancient culture practiced barbarism just because they didn’t employ modern sterile techniques in surgical procedures.

I don't see why I should use any other meter than my own. Tell me whose metrics I should use, and why.
Also, why should distance in time be a consideration?

BTW, this is not hostile. I am Honestly curious as to your answer. While I come down on the side of I should Use my Own, generally. This is a personal argument I have been having with myself since I saw Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home back in the 80s

 

[sojourner]

I a going to remind you that the Bible was written by a lot of people over a long period of time. For all that you know some of it some was written with moral goals, some with immoral goals, and some with amoral ends. Humans being humans, that is probably the case.

I don’t believe that to be the case. It’s not perfect, but there’s nothing to indicate that the motives were anything other than noble. The God it presents is a moral God in their perspective.

I don't see why I should use any other meter than my own.

When looking at things such as performing a piece of ancient music, or in tuning a period pipe organ, it helps to realize that (for example analyzing the tessitura of a soprano’s vocal range) what was written as “A” 350 years ago was not 440 Hz. It was considerably lower. Today’s sopranos have a job hitting the high notes in these ancient pieces, because our notes are inherently higher in frequency than originally written. We have to use their metrics. When tuning a period pipe organ, same thing. In order to bring metal and wood pipes of particular lengths up to a standard of A440, it stresses these pipes that were constructed on a lower tuning. In many cases, they’re simply physically too long to tune without mangling these historic pipes. Additionally, the pipes were voiced on a certain scale ratio of length to diameter, height of mouth, etc. When we bring up the tuning to modern standard, it throws off the voicing. We have to use their metrics.

It’s the same when considering the morals of the Bible. Everything is relative; there is no “absolute” moral code. We can take the intent Of the law and separate it from the letter of the law and find some moral center that informs us. Your posts seem unwilling to do anything but consider that letter as something absolute.

Also, why should distance in time be a consideration?

See above.

 

[eik]

The arrogance comes in when my stepson, who is Episcopalian, was cornered on the playground and bullied by a group of kids who went to the local “Six Flags Over Jesus” because he didn’t go there too. They learn that from the adults.

Must be difficult having a step father. It creates all kinds of problems and insecurities. I know that from experience.

 

[sojourner]

Must be difficult having a step father. It creates all kinds of problems and insecurities. I know that from experience.

Actually, I’m the steady. I never tried to replace his dad, but his dad’s an alcoholic, was emotionally distant, and irresponsible as a parent. These last few years he’s more or less stepped up. In the meantime I tried my best to support, encourage, etc.

 

[ppp]

I don’t believe that to be the case. It’s not perfect, but there’s nothing to indicate that the motives were anything other than noble. The God it presents is a moral God in their perspective.

I consider ordering your army to kill all the men, male children and non-virginal women; then to take all the virgin girls for sex slaves to be contemptible. Why do you consider it to be noble?

When looking at things such as performing a piece of ancient music, or in tuning a period pipe organ, it helps to realize that (for example analyzing the tessitura of a soprano’s vocal range) what was written as “A” 350 years ago was not 440 Hz. It was considerably lower. Today’s sopranos have a job hitting the high notes in these ancient pieces, because our notes are inherently higher in frequency than originally written. We have to use their metrics. When tuning a period pipe organ, same thing. In order to bring metal and wood pipes of particular lengths up to a standard of A440, it stresses these pipes that were constructed on a lower tuning. In many cases, they’re simply physically too long to tune without mangling these historic pipes. Additionally, the pipes were voiced on a certain scale ratio of length to diameter, height of mouth, etc. When we bring up the tuning to modern standard, it throws off the voicing. We have to use their metrics.

It’s the same when considering the morals of the Bible. Everything is relative; there is no “absolute” moral code. We can take the intent Of the law and separate it from the letter of the law and find some moral center that informs us. Your posts seem unwilling to do anything but consider that letter as something absolute.

You are trying to compare people (moral agents) to objects (which have no moral agency).
But even setting HUGE issue aside, your analogy still breaks.
The goal in your analogy is to play a period piece as it was done when it was first realized. In other words, you are trying to adopt their means in order to achieve their goals. I have no interest in attempting to achieve as are the goals of many of your "noble" Biblical protagonists. Slavery, rape, and genocide are not moral.

I have no problem with using empathy to understand their goals, concerns and motivations at the time. But empathy does not bind me to agree or support them. Their thinking that they were acting morally is not evidence that they were.

If you say that Lot was acting morally when he tried to throw his daughters to the mob, what exactly do you mean by morality? Is it just relative to each person? Like "tasty"?

 

[sojourner]

I consider ordering your army to kill all the men, male children and non-virginal women; then to take all the virgin girls for sex slaves to be contemptible. Why do you consider it to be noble?



You are trying to compare people (moral agents) to objects (which have no moral agency).
But even setting HUGE issue aside, your analogy still breaks.
The goal in your analogy is to play a period piece as it was done when it was first realized. In other words, you are trying to adopt their means in order to achieve their goals. I have no interest in attempting to achieve as are the goals of many of your "noble" Biblical protagonists. Slavery, rape, and genocide are not moral.

I have no problem with using empathy to understand their goals, concerns and motivations at the time. But empathy does not bind me to agree or support them. Their thinking that they were acting morally is not evidence that they were.

If you say that Lot was acting morally when he tried to throw his daughters to the mob, what exactly do you mean by morality? Is it just relative to each person? Like "tasty"?

I’ll get back to you when I’m not trying to type on my phone.

 

[rational experiences]

Christ story. I am a human, I live and am born into a pre owned adult community, in control by the elite...who are the elite from all the murder and control tactics of human groups from the moment the group decided not to be a natural group family member in human natural spiritual life.

True history.

I am harmed by the presence OCCULT information, sick and attacked. The same today by UFO radiation extra dispersed mass that has to equals God the stone cold radiation mass to be stone O removed first. So the atmosphere gases first advise the male conscious self what he wants to get out of the stone body. Yet the stone mass has a larger gas mass body O as mass.

So as he changes the O mass of God the stone, the heavenly gas mass get mass radiation presence to say equals. Scientific taught relativity, known as a teaching, equated the reason why life/DNA was sick and mutating, sacrificed and life dying.

For we live in a natural atmosphere, the gases are the same for everyone, the oxygen and water is the same for everyone, so we all should be the same.

Medical science quoted....Holy land attacked/DNA genetics disappear and get removed in UFO radiation fall out.....total real quote.

So humans then have to form a group support just like they do today. Get chided and ridiculed in their phenomena science occult caused attacked life.....and in the past they group called their own selves Christians.

Now was that a moral history, being sacrificed in science? No. It is not any history to be stated spiritual or actually Holy. It was a technological age, it was owned by evil manipulative elite occult inhumanity and control and want of power and technology and trade a LIAR.

So the Christians historically are not any arrogant human, the scientific Satanist was....and in the past Rome owned a lot of that control....why it is stated that when those groups petitioned for the sacrificed to be notated and for life to be saved and technology stopped...they murdered them instead. The exact same choice and human mentality in group control that has existed in the elite society.

As a human teaching of self community truths.

The theme Christian was to be harmed, over ruled, not given any honest life or equal living condition and sacrificed. And today you want to preach what about that human chosen past? A lot of inhumane lying as usual, false teaching, coercion and group mentality.

Just as it always has been, a lot of groups lying for personal wealth and control over other humans.

Science was always the occult and it is just a group of male egotistical liars who pretend that they know it all.....whilst they do such research like NDE as an experience hoping to substantiate KNOWING IT ALL...for humans have said when I nearly die suddenly everything is known to me. But when they become conscious again claim, no now I forget, but it was a self experience.

Science thinks it can contact humans in their subliminal minds as mind contact/remote viewing in AI to listen in and maybe suddenly and personally know it all....as that sort of sick human mentality as a truth about science today.,

They even quote I am going to know it all one day. Yet that moment is just before you die. So it should give you a complete modern day human warning about science today and what it contemplates on achievement for self in an experience to know it all just before they die by a scientific experience.

When energy exists in very huge masses of diverse bodies in one spatial condition, says it all to any science self. You never will know for diversity is how the bodies are expressed in their natural creation presence.

Everything that you peruse as a science thinker is natural, is self original presence of its presence, you can talk about it because it is present. It is natural and diverse, and it exists separated.

If anyone contemplated Satanism as its occult history, the cosmological science theories, you would realise that they are tying to theme having all diversity put back into one body of mass as one status...as if diversity itself owns no condition of hierarchy in their themes and schematics to force change everything as ONE condition.

In science thinking historically about our one energy mass body presence as the only form a human scientist manipulates is GOD O the stone mass. So if he claims ONE scientific human ability about everything, then his intent is to try to convert everything into a radiation mass that equates equals just stone...the body of his machine removal, as formula and design of causes.

This form of human mentality is why the scientist burnt us all to death, it is his occult God science status, human and his preaching that themes all stories science and the occult in cosmology, and he preaches that God will send you to Hell human because he did it by imposing God upon natural existence.

Is a liar, always has been a coercive liar, continually preaches his false ideals as a human and is only the same baby human born by human sex that everyone else is. Hierarchy and self imposed status his reason for destroying our life.

 

[eik]

Actually, I’m the steady. I never tried to replace his dad, but his dad’s an alcoholic, was emotionally distant, and irresponsible as a parent. These last few years he’s more or less stepped up. In the meantime I tried my best to support, encourage, etc.

Trouble is, having a step father is always going to add to the sense of disability and lack of confidence, and can create many issues in itself. Then there is episcopalianism. It's a denomination (i.e. has a hierarchy) that I personally detest, as I'm pretty certain its hierarchy has forfeited its right to be called "Christian," given its extreme antinomianism. It's something you might want to check out yourself.

 

[ppp]

Trouble is, having a step father is always going to add to the sense of disability and lack of confidence, and can create many issues in itself. Then there is episcopalianism. It's a denomination (i.e. has a hierarchy) that I personally detest, as I'm pretty certain its hierarchy has forfeited its right to be called "Christian," given its extreme antinomianism. It's something you might want to check out yourself.

The world if full of Christian denominations denouncing other Christian denominations as being not RealAndTrue Christian on the basis that the accuser's denomination has the real-for-sure-true interpretation of the Bible and the other denomination are unlettered poopy heads. [sigh]

 

[eik]

The world if full of Christian denominations denouncing other Christian denominations as being not RealAndTrue Christian on the basis that the accuser's denomination has the real-for-sure-true interpretation of the Bible and the other denomination are unlettered poopy heads. [sigh]

I don't have a denomination and no, I won't described such denominations as "unlettered" because they are usually very wise in their own eyes, so wise in fact that they have abandoned the need to obey Christ.

 

[ppp]

I don't have a denomination and no, I won't described such denominations as "unlettered" because they are usually very wise in their own eyes, so wise in fact that they have abandoned the need to obey Christ.

You are your own denomination There are plenty denominations of one out there.

 

[eik]

You are your own denomination There are plenty denominations of one out there.

I reject that contention. A denomination is an established group, body or organization of persons. Denominations of one, two or three don't exist. In any case, I maintain no particularly distinguishable features that would alienate me from many denominations. My current lack of denominationalism really springs from my current geographic isolation from like minded Christians, and of course from the fact that all the churches are shut and have been so for months.

 

[ppp]

I reject that contention. A denomination is an established group, body or organization of persons. Denominations of one, two or three don't exist. In any case, I maintain no particularly distinguishable features that would alienate me from many denominations. My current lack of denominationalism really springs from my current geographic isolation from like minded Christians, and of course from the fact that all the churches are shut and have been so for months.

Reject away. Yet I see no practical difference between one, two, ten, one hundred, or ten thousand.

 

[eik]

Reject away. Yet I see no practical difference between one, two, ten, one hundred, or ten thousand.

Nothing in the bible thay says Christians should be arranged into denominations. In fact the converse: the teaching is that they shouldn't be. Those obsessed with denominations are looking at things from a worldly perspective.

 

[ppp]

Nothing in the bible thay says Christians should be arranged into denominations. In fact the converse: the teaching is that they shouldn't be. Those obsessed with denominations are looking at things from a worldly perspective.

I have no idea why you are telling me that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This is the definition of arrogance:
ADJECTIVE

1. having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
   "he's arrogant and opinionated" ·
   haughty · conceited · hubristic · self-important · opinionated · egotistic · full of oneself · superior · overbearing · pompous · hig

There are times when popular churches in my community make a point to witness to the public or witness at my Moms AA meeting and automatically expect me to jump on the band wagon because they think they ever so important.

They're church is so important and popular and me with my obesity I am so unpopular they arrogantly expect me to jump at the chance to go to their church and then act like their hairs shocked off their heads when I say no.

The Rodeo church did that to me last year,they explained to me that they had the rodeo and country music at their church and everyone in the group was attending and I needed to get a ride and go so I could go tot heir rodeo.

I just thought what the "0000" I hate the rodeo why would I do that? But I told them I am not Christian not interested. They acted like they were gonna faint dead, went into shock. They just way way way over estimated the popularity of their church and looked down their noses at me, thought poor little obese me, I should be friendless but I'm not.

I don't care how popular your church is. They just automatically, like said we expect you'll want to go, just automatically no question in it. They think everyone in Texas is dying to see the rodeo too.

I find such attitudes obnoxious and offensive, too. You have my sympathies.

 

[eik]

I have no idea why you are telling me that.

Strange. I am telling you that so that you will know that I already know that your denominational obession is not motivated by sincerity.

 

[ppp]

Strange. I am telling you that so that you will know that I already know that your denominational obession is not motivated by sincerity.

Well, you're incorrect.