Christianity - accepting 'all'

[michel]

I have, in the past (perhaps naively) assumed that Christians follow the dictates of the Pope; that there is no room for differences. That, if you commit yourself to a credo, you cannot 'pick & choose' what seems palatable to you, and yet have ideas that are not in accord with those of the Church of which you are a part.

How do the Christians on the forum 'cope' with this ? - if indeed you do find some parts of your Religion which you think are ones that you feel strongly about, that you cannot accept?

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

I have, in the past (perhaps naively) assumed that Christians follow the dictates of the Pope; that there is no room for differences. That, if you commit yourself to a credo, you cannot 'pick & choose' what seems palatable to you, and yet have ideas that are not in accord with those of the Church of which you are a part.

How do the Christians on the forum 'cope' with this ? - if indeed you do find some parts of your Religion which you think are ones that you feel strongly about, that you cannot accept?

This is why I am not a member of any one church, or of any one Religion. I like to visit all of them. I get so much out of all of them. I look for patterns to determine what is 'truth'.

I am considered a Christian because I grew up in various Christian Churches, and I believe in the teachings of Christ. But so does Islam, so doesn't that make them Christians as well? There are several religions who believe in the teachings of Christ, but are they are not called Christians.

When studying scripture, I listen with my heart. When my heart feels uneasy about something, that is what I study, and I either find a truth hidden, or I reveal a simple dogma. But the things that make you go 'HHmMMMmm?' These are the things to study and clarify, and then either validate or discard.

 

[Mike182]

I have, in the past (perhaps naively) assumed that Christians follow the dictates of the Pope; that there is no room for differences. That, if you commit yourself to a credo, you cannot 'pick & choose' what seems palatable to you, and yet have ideas that are not in accord with those of the Church of which you are a part.

How do the Christians on the forum 'cope' with this ? - if indeed you do find some parts of your Religion which you think are ones that you feel strongly about, that you cannot accept?

hey dude

you have a good question - where to start lol

i would say that Martin Luther was the first person to challenge the popes authority (he wasnt actually the first but he was the first to do it SUCCESFULly so for simplicities sake i will call him the first)

Martin Luther was a German augustinian monk - turned to christ after surviving a massive thunderstorm - but he couldn't find peace from his sins - he repented and purchased indulgences but still didnt feel Gods mercy upon him

later - on a visit to the vatican (rome) he saw the deep running curruption of many of the bishops there selling a special indulgence for teh freedom of them and their ancestors from purgatory - and wrote his 95 theses in response to this! he didnt agree with selling indulgences to the poor as a means of exploiting them of their money to build the pope new palaces and cathedrals - in his 95 theses he states that "if the pope has the power to releave us of all our sins -surely he would want to do it freely"

he wrote many books on a lot of issues that he didnt agree with (for instance the two sacraments mentioned in the bible instead of the seven the catholic church practiced) and ultimately ended up challenging the very authority of the pope after being ex-communicated from the catholic church - his main arguement being that the original scripture did not support such a hierarchy and so the pope had no power over anyone else - he believed in universal preisthood - the idea that anyone can read the bible and translate it, not just the pope and his advisors - it was for this reason he translated teh bible from the ancient languages to german - so average everyday people could read the bible instead of having it read to them in latin

thats only part of the story in breif lol - and most christians who dont agree with something abotu the church dont try to tear it down! but open discussion is teh way forward ive found

among recent talks with my pastors ive questiond the adam and eve story - did it all happen exactly like that - or is it an allegory of a deeper truth? i often question teh validity of the bible - who wrote it - who was it written for - am i reading the exact words they wrote all those years ago - especially in romans one that is often used to condemn homosexuality

anyway - i wont go off topic with a rant on romans 1 lol

no we do not all follow the pope, agree with the pope, or even accept the pope
- but he is still a leading politician so i dont completely ignore him either - i like to keep my eye on things lol

so yes - i do often disagree with church preaching - but i dont shout it to the world - i may choose to question what leads them to this conclusion and if they have conciderd my views - universal preisthood - and im aware that i may have just questioned my faith again lol - but i do believe in the christian faith

thats how i 'deal' with it - i challenge it in open and friendly discussion

sometimes i am overwhelmed by the evidence they have for their view that i change my view - and on the odd occasion i have also changed other peoples views - but at the end of the day - sola fide - justification by faith alone

God Bless
xXx

 

[michel]

Any more opinions, advice?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Any more opinions, advice?

I am sure you know already that I have problems with some church teachings.But if it does not trouble them, it does not trouble me.
The church of England is an extremly broad church as you know, and allows for quite wide interpretations.
If You talk your problem areas over with a priest, you will probably find they are nothing new, he may even show you another way of looking at it that bridges the gap so to speak.
even my fundamental belief problem, in not believing in the resurrection of the body is not a total block.

Terry
_____________________________________
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land

 

[Fluffy]

Many Christians are able to get around following the Pope's dictates by pointing to the fact that the Pope is merely human and so is open to corruption. A quick look at the history of the papacy is enough to confirm this important fact. Therefore, anything that the Pope says should not be taken for granted but should be considered and taken on board if it seems right. Our conscience should be the tool which we use to make such a judgement.

Another argument would be that the Popes were only necessary at first, as Christianity began to rise. A single leader uniting the church would be able to better defend its members from persecution whilst spreading its message better. One could argue that such an office is not needed anymore since Christianity is able to flourish without the need for such protection.

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

sometimes i am overwhelmed by the evidence they have for their view that i change my view - and on the odd occasion i have also changed other peoples views - but at the end of the day - sola fide - justification by faith alone

I find it difficult to understand this concept when the Bible explicitly says we are not justified by Faith Alone...

Anyway, Martin Luther had mental issues as well, was extremely scrupulous, and came up with his doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide not because he "turned to Christ" but because he rejected the teachings of Christ's Church. You want more Sacraments? Baptismis clearly propounded in Scripture, so is the Eucharist. Confession to a Priest as well "Whsoe sins you forgive are forgiven, whose sins you retain are retained", and I could go on.

But the biggest problem within Christianity is that too many want to "go it alone", with just "Me, Jesus, and the Bible", even thoguh there is no reason to believe in such a thing. But even then, I accept other's Faith in Christ as genuine. So I would much rather someone be a protestant than a Muslim, but I will try to show him or her that Protestantism lacks the fullness of Christanity.

 

[SarahBeara]

There is no written creed or dogma in the Quaker Religion, however, each church does have their own, written, faith and practice. You don't have to agree with everything though, infact, if something does not sit well with you, you don't even have to participate. I really have no reason to "cope" with things I don't agree with because I found a church that had the same beliefs as me. I was lucky to find a church that I didn't disagree with, but it happened . If I find a reason to need to cope, I will just be thankful for how open-minded the people at my church are.

 

[SarahBeara]

and oh yeah... the pope only controles the Catholic church

 

[Mike182]

I find it difficult to understand this concept when the Bible explicitly says we are not justified by Faith Alone...

Anyway, Martin Luther had mental issues as well, was extremely scrupulous, and came up with his doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide not because he "turned to Christ" but because he rejected the teachings of Christ's Church. You want more Sacraments? Baptismis clearly propounded in Scripture, so is the Eucharist. Confession to a Priest as well "Whsoe sins you forgive are forgiven, whose sins you retain are retained", and I could go on.

But the biggest problem within Christianity is that too many want to "go it alone", with just "Me, Jesus, and the Bible", even thoguh there is no reason to believe in such a thing. But even then, I accept other's Faith in Christ as genuine. So I would much rather someone be a protestant than a Muslim, but I will try to show him or her that Protestantism lacks the fullness of Christanity.

i was just watchign a fil called "amistad" its about teh american slave trade and a group of black slaves take over thsi one boat and get cought - put on trial in america

theres this one point where all these catholics start singing to them and give one of them a bible - these people cannt read english so they look at the pictures (this bible has pictures ) and they just so happend to be looking at one of the gospels about the death and ressurection of christ - that is all they understood and i was sat there thinking - thats all you reall need to understand - that is the fundamental part of our faith - the fact that christ died for us and our sins and yet still came back

yes the other parts of the bible are important in living day to day as a christian - but there is no stronger message in the bible about christ than that - and those who truely have that at heart will ascend to his kingdom - amen

secondly - martin luther came to faith years before going to the vatican - i think - i will hit my books later but for now im off to college

God Bless
xXx

 

[Melody]

I have, in the past (perhaps naively) assumed that Christians follow the dictates of the Pope; that there is no room for differences. That, if you commit yourself to a credo, you cannot 'pick & choose' what seems palatable to you, and yet have ideas that are not in accord with those of the Church of which you are a part.

How do the Christians on the forum 'cope' with this ? - if indeed you do find some parts of your Religion which you think are ones that you feel strongly about, that you cannot accept?

Michel,
That's why I don't follow a "religion".

My aunt has not attended church since she graduated from high school (catholic) and yet had her children baptized, attend catechism classes, take communion and confirmation. When I asked why, if she doesn't believe in what the church teaches, she said she accepted some but not all. She just picks and chooses. I don't understand either.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

For me there are three Types of truth in Christianity.
the teachings of Christ. These I believe
The teachings of Paul and the apostles. These in the case of Paul were not directly received from the mouth of Christ. But all the apostles had to teach a wide range of people coming from differing beliefs, so they had to temper their words to be understood and believed.
It is these later teaching that I sometime have difficulty with.
There is a third set of teachings that have grown through legitimate agreement by the churches leaders. These I can find the most difficult of all.
I try to believe all the teachings that have come down to us. but if I have a problem in groups two or three I can live with my own faith.

Terry
_______________________________
Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

theres this one point where all these catholics start singing to them and give one of them a bible - these people cannt read english so they look at the pictures (this bible has pictures ) and they just so happend to be looking at one of the gospels about the death and ressurection of christ - that is all they understood and i was sat there thinking - thats all you reall need to understand - that is the fundamental part of our faith - the fact that christ died for us and our sins and yet still came back

You will get no argument from me there. In fact, Catholics tend to be much more tolerant of other Christian groups than many. For instance, Fundamentalists think we are all damned because we don't believe EXACTLY what they blieve even though we hold that Christ is God and died for our sins. I believe ANYONE who holds that Christ is God and died for our sins on the cross, and who truly attempts to do His will is a Christian--but I will still attempt explain and defend the Catholic Faith agaisnt those with questions or misconceptions about it.

 

[michel]

Thanks for your input guys; I am obviously not alone in this.........

I have always felt a hypocrite by picking and choosing, somehow I find that is 'cheating' . I am much in the same position as you Terrywoodenpic, and, Melody, I understand perfectly where you come from....... I suppose, until I manage to understand the latter teachings, I will have to call myself a 'Christian' - as in 'A follower of Christ' - which I certainly am, and always have been, to some extent.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Mike182]

You will get no argument from me there. In fact, Catholics tend to be much more tolerant of other Christian groups than many. For instance, Fundamentalists think we are all damned because we don't believe EXACTLY what they blieve even though we hold that Christ is God and died for our sins. I believe ANYONE who holds that Christ is God and died for our sins on the cross, and who truly attempts to do His will is a Christian--but I will still attempt explain and defend the Catholic Faith agaisnt those with questions or misconceptions about it.

sometimes in debates or discussions its easy to forget that we all believe in the same fundamental event and significance of christ's life on earth

-yes people argue over doctrine and scripture - is homosexuality wright or wrong? - debatable
-are there seven sacraments - are there only two - are there any?
-is the eucharist consubstanciation, transubstanciation - or just symbolic and an act of rememberance?

all of these are debatable both between denominations of churchs and within the members of each denomination - but we all believe in christ - and that is the context i use sola fide in - that we are all justified in our faith in christ on a fundamental level - that is teh common ground that is unifying of all of christs church - but of course our sins get in the way of our relationship with christ and so we are not worthy of his mercy.

sorry everyone this turned into a little mini essay on christianity and probably not all that helpful to michel who started this thread lol

but anyway
God Bless you and Keep you

amen