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Christian - Why most people follow Paul not Christ

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by wizanda, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Has anybody else noticed how much Saul/Paul contradicts Christ and turned the word faith into religious belief



    I have a lot of the scriptures in concern on my site and with out copying and pasting them all



    I will try and explain some of it.

    Christ came to set us free he was against the church and the way that the church cared more about profit, then love or wisdom


    He asked that we remember him for sharing and through life as god is the lord of the living



    After his death there were almost 5000 people living together as one, selling all they owned and putting it into the community.



    Until Saul/Paul came along lied about Stephen and then had him killed



    Christ said his disciples should drink just water, Paul made communion



    He asked us to worship god, yet Paul added the confusion that makes people worship Christ as god



    Christ said if there is sinners embrace them so that they might see through your ways how to be good



    Paul told us to push out sinners and not to have anything to do with them



    Christ said God would provide all we needed, which is true and if we lived more in touch with nature as Christ did then all would be free.



    Where as Paul went back to work while he preached and said if you don’t work you don’t eat



    Fair enough if there is someone lazy who does nothing whilst the rest work this is unfair



    Yet if we lived as Christ had said we would work and live as a community and all do our fair share to fetch in the food and offer what talents we have



    The way god intended, not the way the roman government wanted us to pay our taxes just to live.



    Christ said not to judge and even he didn’t, yet Paul told us the spiritual can judge and should not be judged by anyone



    Christ said call no man your teacher or father other then God, yet Paul told us he is the teacher or Christ is and that he had begotten us in Christ



    This is just the start of it and there is a load more. If you question that the bible is infallible you have to remember that it was rearranged by an x-pagan and the roman church



    Yet god doesn’t make mistakes this is why I feel that the vision Daniel refers to this



    It also was made a proverb in Samuel is Saul among the prophets, a proverb meaning it stands for all off time



    Christ also warned us against the Pharisees and that someone would come after him and change what he had said



    Yet as what had been said by Paul was supposed to convince people into the church many haven’t noticed



    I could add loads to this yet scriptures do it far better and let Paul condemn him self with his own words.
     
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  2. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hello and welcome Wizanda.

    You seem to be forgetting something: Christ chose Paul.

    Without Paul, our faith would still be a small sect of the Jewish faith. Paul opened up (by the power of the Holy Spirit) the faith to Gentiles.

    Without Paul, Christianity would be reserved for those like me: Circumsized Jews.

    Just some food for thought.

    Peace be with you,
    Scott
     
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  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Would it?

    after christ death almost 5000 people where living together as one!!

    Who is to say that this wouldnt have continued if it wasnt for paul destroying it in the first place

    Instead he sets up his own church the same as it was before with laws and rules and regulations

    Also pushing women out as spoken about the anti-christ

    if you look at the contridictions in where both men had there focus you will see what i mean

    Ok paul spread the message of yeshua yet he changed it about him being dead

    He also changed the whole meaning of love into love your rich friends as he did

    not sharing with all!!

    especialy the sinners as christ did, so making it that we would have a warm friendly community

    Instead we have rich christian countries and poor everyone else???

    Christ said get rid of your richs!! paul made people stay humble to the system and under control

    If the roman goverment wrote the books of paul to control people with out them noticing i dont think they could do a better job

    so who's side was paul on?
     
  4. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Could you post the scripture that would back up your conclusion? Then we can get a better understanding of what you're talking about.
     
  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth

    Matthew 22:37-40 (37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.(38) This is the first and great commandment.(39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Matthew 6:14-15(14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:(15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
    Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Matthew 12:36-37(36) But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.(37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
    Romans 3:23-24(23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;(24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    Matthew 7:1-2 (1) Judge not, that ye be not judged.(2) For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

    There is some just at random off my site, the list goes on, including where he contridict the old testament. If words have power and people take things in, remember they may seem slight. Yet they actual change the meaning of christ words, when you look at all the stuff saul said

    This is the reason most religions wont accept christianity, yet if we just followed christ he said alot simular to Lao Tzu and Buddah and the world would be a better place

    Also for anybody who has looked at the greek christ uses the word also or yet and so expands on what he says. where as saul uses but, (goats go but) this then adds a contridiction and doubt making confussion in his teachings.

    So dont worry i am not saying paul should be taken out of the bible, yet this is the sheep and the goat, and the prophocey that daniel spoke of, as christ came with two commandments (ie 2 horns) which have been almost lost due to paul.
     
  6. CocaColaKid

    CocaColaKid Member

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    Wow wanda,
    I dont know were to start. Jesus, Said pull the plank out of your own eye so you can get the speck out of your brothers BUT keep reading he also say dont throw perls to pig Why? Judge them and see, they go and get in the mud and will ruin your perls.Jesus may have said drink only water ( not sure were you got that but ok:confused: ) but what was his first mircle?
    The other are right Jesue Chose Saul to do his will. And paul said it himself to follow him as HE follow christ.Both were on the same team just a diffrent, Jesus came to seek and save the lost. Paul jod was to preach the Gospel and help newly formed churches
    Go back and look you will see that Paul give Jesus all the creidt and none for himself
     
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  7. CocaColaKid

    CocaColaKid Member

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    Wanda
    I hope you spend more time in the word. What the others are saying is right.
     
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  8. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Wanda, you provide some interesting twists. You're comparing Gospel era scripture with post-Pentacost scripture. Some major events took place in that time element. I don't see how most of the posted scripture contridicts, in its proper context. If you're going to compare biblical judgement why not make a list of every singe verse dealing with judgement because you forgot Luke 7:43, Luke 12:57, John 7:24, I Corinth 2:15, Rom 6:13,16, 18, Deut 1:16, Prov 31:9, Isa 16:5, ...


    Wanda, you do understand that it is important to make judgements every day of our lives? You should read again and hopefully you will see that the scripture teaches that christians are to make righteous judgements but even more they are called to be righteous.
     
  9. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    I am very aware of the word judgement used in the bible
    The thing is christ said not to judge yet most of pauls preaching is very judgmental
    I am aware of the time scale invovled yet you forget that god has played a major role in the writting of the bible and so time is not important as he sees all of time as a moment
    Christ said to show love to sinners and spread your light paul said have nothing to do with them
    Christs church was in the people after his death 5000 people lived together as a community selling all they own and living as one
    Untill Paul/Saul came along and lied and had stephen killed
    Then Paul established a new church similar to the old
    The thing with this whole thing is regardless of how many time i go over the bible the more i will see this as god showed me in the first place
     
  10. Emishshaw

    Emishshaw New Member

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    [font=Chancellor,Lucida Sans]
    [/font] ​

    [font=Chancellor,Lucida Sans]
    New Yerushaliam coming down out of Heaven is built upon the Rock.
    [font=Chancellor,Lucida Sans]

    [/font][font=Formal436 BT,Courier New]Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the lamb.


    [/font]Paul, Shaul was not one of them nor is his letters foundational in the rock, but his house is built on the sand.
    Now understand that the Rock is the revelation that YHVH gave Keefa of His Revealed Word, Yeshuah Ha Meshiach the son of the living YHVH, Elohay Of Yisrael.
    In Yochanon 17,
    the eleven were there with Yahshuah and Yahshuah prayed to the Father (Please read whole chapter)

    (Yochanon 17:11) (last part) "that they may be one, as we are"
    (Yochanon 17:15) "I pray not that thou should take them out of the world but that thou should keep them from the evil"
    (Yochanon 17:18)
    "As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world."
    Note
    (he sent the eleven into the world and to the nations, not Shaul) Matthew 28:19-20
    (Yochanon 17:20) "Neither Pray I for these alone but for all those that believe On Me through THEIR Word; Note (Shaul did not believe on him through their word)
    (Yochanon 17:21) "That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou has sent me."


    PAUL’S WAYS LIKENED UNTO KORAH
    WHO REBELLED AGAINST MOSHE
    THE SERVANT OF YHVH

    1 Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the

    son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab,

    and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:

    2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the

    children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of

    the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of

    renown:

    3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses

    and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too

    much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy,

    every one of them, and the Lord is among them:

    wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the

    congregation of the Lord?

    Please read the whole chapter in Numbers 16

    It is a fact that Paul did not get his so-called revelation through the word Yahshuah gave his eyewitness apostles. (Paul himself testifies such) Therefore, he is excluded from being unified with the apostles Yahshuah Prayed for in Yochanon 17:20-21
    Paul himself testified that he had no need to be taught by man in Gal 1:12
    11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

    12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    Sounds like Korah in that he claims to be an Israelite, he claims that Yahshuah’s revelation is present among him, he does not submit to the pillars of New Yerushaliam as a matter a fact he said it "did not matter to him what they were" (gal) even though they are over the congregation of Adonoy.

    Shaul rebelled against the men (servants) that received revelation from the Father of Yahshuah, and spake as they were moved by the Ruach Ha Kodesh)
    Therefore it is obvious that even as our dearly beloved Korah rebelled against Moshe,
    even so Shaul rebelled against the servants of the Most High who were chosen and eye witnesses of his most excellent Majesty and Glory.
    Shaul, even expressed the shame of his nakedness by saying in Gal 2:6"But those
    who seemed somewhat, whatsoever they were, makes no difference to me:" and Gal 2:9 "and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars"

    FACT James, Cephas and John ARE PILLARS, the revelation they have is foundational in New Yerushaliam. They are not just "so called" They are that they are, even as YHVH says "I am that I am"
    Now, Shaul did not submit to the eyewitnesses of Yahshuah, nor did he obtain like precious faith with those Keefa wrote to in 2Keefa, but he got his revelation another way.

    Yahshuah said in Matthew 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not

    by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some

    other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

    2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of

    the sheep.

    3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his

    voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and

    leadeth them out.

    4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth

    before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know

    his voice.

    5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee

    from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.


    The other way is recorded in canon bound by chains even as the angels that left their first estate are bound in chains under darkness.
    But the seals will be broken and the books will be open and every man will be judged by their work according to the things written in the books.

    Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

    and the books were opened: and another book was

    opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were

    judged out of those things which were written in the

    books, according to their works.


    ??
    Are your works those of Shaul, partaking from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
    Who knew the right way enough to right about the longsuffering of YHVH.

    Some people think that Keefa endorsed Paul’s writings, but a careful study of the words (every single word) will reveal that such a statement is untrue. If you Are obedient to Torah and the Testimony of Yahshuah, taking diligent heed to the eyewitnesses first; you will not stumble at Shaul’s letters like the unlearned and unstable do. In fact you will begin to realize how that one of the reasons the eyewitnesses did not just single Paul out is because he was not alone, but with Balaam, Korah and Cainite Spirits. This Keefa and the other eyewitnesses do warn against such.
    Can you see that it is not just Paul, but the Serpent, many heads given to Beast all with One Mind?

    In Keefa 2 as Keefa said. and "These things" subject matter is about the Longsuffering of Adoni and that he is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance.
    Yes, Shaul knew the message of repentance, enough to right about it. So that in the end he will be without excuse for those things he added and subtracted from Torah.
    If you take diligent heed to the eyewitness testimony of the glory and Majesty of the Most High until the day dawn and the day star arise in your heart, which of course will not happen unless you are a hearer and a doer of the Word, then you will not stumble at Shaul’s letters wherein
    "He Speaks " not the Spirit of YHVH.
    Those that have not believed on Yahshuah and The Word his eyewitness apostles received and are not hearers and doers of the Word of YHVH will stumble at Shaul's letters, because they are unlearned and unstable and they twist Shaul’s letters to set him on a throne as if he is sent by YHVH and they also twist and stumble at the Other scripture (of truth) to their own destruction.
    (Satan has mush wisdom with those that forsake the covenant and he enters into a wide place by his flatteries, and seductions)
    One reason being that the other scriptures are the Scripture of Truth and the seed of the Tree of Life which can not be mixed with the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


    Paul knew the right way, but he forsook it, and tried to become all things to all people, promising them liberty while he and those with him are servants to sin.

    There is more I will post in another post for it is too long for one post

    [/font]





     
  11. Emishshaw

    Emishshaw New Member

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    PAUL’S TEACHINGS LIKENED UNTO BALAAM WHO
    TAUGHT BALK TO CAST A STUMBLINGBLOCK
    BEFORE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL
    He taught the doctrine of Balaam also, in that Balaam taught Balak to teach the Moabites to intermingle with the Israelites.
    He taught them to be "Pleased to dwell under the skirts of Yerushaliam" for in doing so, they could hide (as if it were possible) from being destroyed.
    Shaul’s teaching in Corinthians 7:12-14
    "To the rest speak I, not the Lord; If any brother has a wife that believes not, and she be PLEASED to dwell with him, let him not put her away, 13, and the woman which has a husband that believes not, and if he be PLEASED to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14, for the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they clean.
    This is absurd, totally and completely leading people into bondage and subtly the doctrine that Balaam taught Balak, so the Moabites would not be destroyed.(so that they would be sanctified, covered and protected by the Israelites)

    No one can be sanctified except by YHVH alone. You can not hide under the skirts of Yerushaliam and expect to enter into the Holy Place of YeHoVaH.

    But Yerushaliam shall be and is redeemed and shall be cleansed from all her filthiness under her skirts, and YeHoVaH will take from our mouth all the names of Baal. And there will be no place for the Serpent and his followers to hide.


    Hear you the Word of YHVH to his People in Revelation 18:4 "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE THAT YE BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS AND THAT YOU RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES.


    PAUL’S TEACHINGS LIKENED UNTO THE TEACHINGS OF JEZEBELL
    The irony of Shaul’s letters and teachings with Luke are like the murderous sons of Belial that at the command of Jezebel in the name of the king of Israel, twisted the truth and falsely accused Naboth of Blasphemy against G-d and the King, and then murdered him so Jezebel and the king could steal an inheritance that was not theirs. Likewise Shaul and Luke falsely accuse the true inheritors of the Kingdom and those that are unlearned and unstable twist Shaul’s letters to falsely accuse the true inheritors of the vineyard. While they themselves are the true Blasphemers and thus murderers, stealing what is not theirs and robbing the poor and turning the needy away from judgment.


    In conclusion, Yahshuah told the woman that requested that her sons would be, the one on the right hand of Yahshuah and the other on the left, in his kingdom, "Woman you do not know what your asking,"
    "are you able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of and to be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?" They say unto him, we are able. And He, Yahshuah said unto them, "You shall drink indeed of my cup and be baptized with the Baptism I am baptized with, but to set on My Right hand or my left is not mine to give,
    but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father."
    Now Shaul setting in the seat of the serpent who says "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds: I will be like the most High' also said in 2Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy, for I have ESPOUSED you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste Virgin to Christ"
    Shaul’s intent was not to present a chaste Virgin but to sit in the seat of the Most High exalting himself over the servants of YHVH, Subtly deceiving the very Elect as if it were possible by pretending to be some other, that he is not. Somewhat similar to what Leah did to Jacob but even more grossly perverse.
    Woe Woe Woe, the serpent deceived Eve in the Garden, but
    NO ONE can Present the Bride to the Messiah save but YHVH himself by his Ruach.
    Thus it is written,

    "The Spirit and the Bride say come and let him that hears say Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, YHVH shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, YHVH shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the HOLY CITY, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things, says "Surely I come quickly: Ahmein, Even so come Adonoy Yahshuah. The grace of our Adonoy Yahshuah Ha Meshiach be with you all Ahmein.

    [font=Lucida Calligraphy,Vianta]Ammah

    [/font]
     
  12. Emishshaw

    Emishshaw New Member

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    [font=Chancellor,Lucida Sans]
    This was supposed to be the first part of this post but I think the last part will show up first. Ammah aka Emishshaw​
    New Yerushaliam coming down out of Heaven is built upon the Rock.​
    [/font][font=Chancellor,Lucida Sans]

    [/font][font=Formal436 BT,Courier New]Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the lamb.


    [/font]Paul, Shaul was not one of them nor is his letters foundational in the rock, but his house is built on the sand.
    Now understand that the Rock is the revelation that YHVH gave Keefa of His Revealed Word, Yeshuah Ha Meshiach the son of the living YHVH, Elohay Of Yisrael.
    In Yochanon 17,
    the eleven were there with Yahshuah and Yahshuah prayed to the Father (Please read whole chapter)

    (Yochanon 17:11) (last part) "that they may be one, as we are"
    (Yochanon 17:15) "I pray not that thou should take them out of the world but that thou should keep them from the evil"
    (Yochanon 17:18)
    "As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world."
    Note
    (he sent the eleven into the world and to the nations, not Shaul) Matthew 28:19-20
    (Yochanon 17:20) "Neither Pray I for these alone but for all those that believe On Me through THEIR Word; Note (Shaul did not believe on him through their word)
    (Yochanon 17:21) "That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou has sent me."


    PAUL’S WAYS LIKENED UNTO KORAH
    WHO REBELLED AGAINST MOSHE
    THE SERVANT OF YHVH

    1 Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the

    son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab,

    and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:

    2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the

    children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of

    the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of

    renown:

    3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses

    and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too

    much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy,

    every one of them, and the Lord is among them:

    wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the

    congregation of the Lord?

    Please read the whole chapter in Numbers 16

    It is a fact that Paul did not get his so-called revelation through the word Yahshuah gave his eyewitness apostles. (Paul himself testifies such) Therefore, he is excluded from being unified with the apostles Yahshuah Prayed for in Yochanon 17:20-21
    Paul himself testified that he had no need to be taught by man in Gal 1:12
    11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

    12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    Sounds like Korah in that he claims to be an Israelite, he claims that Yahshuah’s revelation is present among him, he does not submit to the pillars of New Yerushaliam as a matter a fact he said it "did not matter to him what they were" (gal) even though they are over the congregation of Adonoy.

    Shaul rebelled against the men (servants) that received revelation from the Father of Yahshuah, and spake as they were moved by the Ruach Ha Kodesh)
    Therefore it is obvious that even as our dearly beloved Korah rebelled against Moshe,
    even so Shaul rebelled against the servants of the Most High who were chosen and eye witnesses of his most excellent Majesty and Glory.
    Shaul, even expressed the shame of his nakedness by saying in Gal 2:6"But those
    who seemed somewhat, whatsoever they were, makes no difference to me:" and Gal 2:9 "and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars"

    FACT James, Cephas and John ARE PILLARS, the revelation they have is foundational in New Yerushaliam. They are not just "so called" They are that they are, even as YHVH says "I am that I am"
    Now, Shaul did not submit to the eyewitnesses of Yahshuah, nor did he obtain like precious faith with those Keefa wrote to in 2Keefa, but he got his revelation another way.

    Yahshuah said in Matthew 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not

    by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some

    other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

    2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of

    the sheep.

    3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his

    voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and

    leadeth them out.

    4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth

    before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know

    his voice.

    5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee

    from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.


    The other way is recorded in canon bound by chains even as the angels that left their first estate are bound in chains under darkness.
    But the seals will be broken and the books will be open and every man will be judged by their work according to the things written in the books.

    Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

    and the books were opened: and another book was

    opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were

    judged out of those things which were written in the

    books, according to their works.


    ??
    Are your works those of Shaul, partaking from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
    Who knew the right way enough to right about the longsuffering of YHVH.

    Some people think that Keefa endorsed Paul’s writings, but a careful study of the words (every single word) will reveal that such a statement is untrue. If you Are obedient to Torah and the Testimony of Yahshuah, taking diligent heed to the eyewitnesses first; you will not stumble at Shaul’s letters like the unlearned and unstable do. In fact you will begin to realize how that one of the reasons the eyewitnesses did not just single Paul out is because he was not alone, but with Balaam, Korah and Cainite Spirits. This Keefa and the other eyewitnesses do warn against such.
    Can you see that it is not just Paul, but the Serpent, many heads given to Beast all with One Mind?

    In Keefa 2 as Keefa said. and "These things" subject matter is about the Longsuffering of Adoni and that he is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance.
    Yes, Shaul knew the message of repentance, enough to right about it. So that in the end he will be without excuse for those things he added and subtracted from Torah.
    If you take diligent heed to the eyewitness testimony of the glory and Majesty of the Most High until the day dawn and the day star arise in your heart, which of course will not happen unless you are a hearer and a doer of the Word, then you will not stumble at Shaul’s letters wherein
    "He Speaks " not the Spirit of YHVH.
    Those that have not believed on Yahshuah and The Word his eyewitness apostles received and are not hearers and doers of the Word of YHVH will stumble at Shaul's letters, because they are unlearned and unstable and they twist Shaul’s letters to set him on a throne as if he is sent by YHVH and they also twist and stumble at the Other scripture (of truth) to their own destruction.
    (Satan has mush wisdom with those that forsake the covenant and he enters into a wide place by his flatteries, and seductions)
    One reason being that the other scriptures are the Scripture of Truth and the seed of the Tree of Life which can not be mixed with the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


    Paul knew the right way, but he forsook it, and tried to become all things to all people, promising them liberty while he and those with him are servants to sin.

     
  13. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    The Devil is wily. Whenever the Devil uses truth, he always twists and manipulates it. Particularly with these comments thrown at Paul. I think a major issue people have against Paul is that he preached that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body. I bet this really burned the Jews up. Had the Devil and his chief devil spirits known this "mystery" given to Paul they would not have cruicified the Lord of glory. Satan would have preferred a living Jesus Christ in one place at a time rather then Christ Jesus living in every born-again believer. Much reason exists for the Adversary to hate Paul's revelation. Paul basicly taught that every born-again believer has Christ in him and is capable of doing the work that Christ did and that believers can lead others into the new birth. No prerequiste like "being a Jew" or "being a religious leader".
     
  14. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Sorry your statements true blood are in correct
    Christ fetched the truth and said to be perfect like God
    Christ showed us the way to be like light and children of God
    Paul taught we are all under sin and non can come close to God accept through christ
    Paul taught you have redemption and forgivness through the blood of christ, which is blaiently against christ as he said about not making the sacrifice and those who praise the sacrifice are guilty of it. also forgivness come from forgiving.
    Paul follows the ways of the jewish who murdered christ, as it was thier intention origianly to kill christ so all sin could be coverd
    So if you are with them and continue to argue for pauls ways, you are guilty as christ said of his death
    Me i would rather follow christ
    Also due to what Paul said that Christ is God it causes conflicts between all the beliefs
    Paul fufills most thing spoke of, about the anti-christ
    He did a good job don't get me wrong at spreading the belief , yet his beliefs cover up the true meaning of Christ
    Most people are put off christ, due to them thinking it is plastic, which is due to Pauls beliefs
    Jerimiah says that fake prophets will use thier neighbours words and say he say this
    It also states that the anti-christ won't like women,ie Paul
    So instead of rebuking us as devils, instead ask your self why inteligent good men through the ages have said the same about Paul.
     
  15. G.A.

    G.A. New Member

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    A major problem with your argument is that Paul and his writings were accepted by the ones who knew the meaning and purpose of Christ's life best, his disciples and their disciples.
     
  16. booboo

    booboo New Member

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    Hi,

    The names of the twelve apostles of the lamb ... Who is the twelfth?


    booboo
     
  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yes, yet in his writings they contridict most of christ teachings
    Changing christ into a religious concept unlike Christ was
    So Paul may have been able to fool the disciples at the time, after 2 years of reasoning with them.
    Yet now we have bible word searchs to confirm every word of pauls against scripture, Guess what tons of errors
    Paul makes so many contidictions it is almost as if he was trying to re-establsih a pharisee church.
    Look what we have in rome??
    Paul pushs us under religion by telling us we are all sinners, where christ tells us we are children of God and to aim to be perfect.
     
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  18. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Actually Jesus taught this

    emphasis mine

    I have never read any writings of Paul that contradict what Jesus taught, please show these.
     
  19. roli

    roli Born Again,Spirit Filled

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    Nothing more disturbing to a christian not to mention a gross injustice to the volitity and accuracy of scripture, when it is taken out of context such as I have seen here,

    If any refute Paul's teaching I would have to assume they are of the group Paul usually directed his messages towards
    1Corinthians 1:22 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumblingblock and to the Greeks foolishness (Jews were religious and thought to gain christ, one must keep the law) The greeks were the philosopers, who only understood wisdom,intellect were the key to salvation
    30, you are in Christ Jesus who is our righteousness and sanctification


    Please, read Paul's teachings closely and if you have doubt's or speculation about who he followed, read it again and if you still don't agree with him, ask yourself a question, am I saved , born again and recieved the revealation of Jesus CHRIST thru His spirit because if not, you will never understand or interpret scripture accurately

    Jesus tells those whom are outside will never understand Matt 13:13- 17
     
  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    In the excellent book Christ or Paul?, the Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore wrote:
    The great theologian Soren Kierkegaard, writing in The Journals, echoes the above sentiment:
    The brilliant theologian Ernest Renan, in his book Saint Paul, wrote:
    Albert Schweitzer, winner of the 1952 Nobel Peace Prize, has been called
    William Wrede, in his excellent book Paul, informs us:
    Rudolf Bultman, one of the most respected theologians of this century, wrote in his Significance of the Historical Jesus for the Theology of Paul:
    Walter Bauer, another eminent theologian, wrote in his Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity:
    George Bernard Shaw, winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1925; in his Androcles and the Lion, we read:
    Will Durant; in his Caesar and Christ, he wrote:
    Martin Buber, the most respected Jewish philosopher of this century, wrote in Two Types of Faith:
    In one of the best books on early Christianity, Those Incredible Christians, Dr. High Schonfield reports:
     
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