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Christian: What is a Christian?

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon

I was going to make this a poll, but polls are so difficult. No matter how hard you try, you don’t provide enough options to suit everybody. But having just been told for the gazillionth time that I am not a Christian, I would like very much to hear where you draw the line and why. Personally, I don’t exclude anyone from the Christian family who sincerely considers himself to be a Christian. But a lot of other people do – and for a variety of reasons. The following criteria seem to be the most often mentioned:

1. A Christian must look to Jesus Christ for salvation and worship Him as God’s Only Begotten Son.

2. A Christian must accept certain core doctrines above and beyond a belief in Jesus Christ’s divinity and power to save. I’m thinking of such doctrines as “sola scriptura, sola fide, the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc.

3. A Christian must pattern his or her life in accordance with Jesus’ example of loving one’s enemies and treating the entire human family with compassion and respect.

4. A Christian must be “born again.” Once such a person becomes a Christian he is assured of salvation no matter what.

Could we please discuss these four criteria, and any others you believe apply? I would also like to know where everyone’s definition comes from, be it from the Bible, the teachings of his or her own denomination, from a personal conviction, etc. And please, let’s not get into which denominations are or are not “the genuine article.” Let’s stick to a discussion of what a Christian is.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Katzpur said:

I was going to make this a poll, but polls are so difficult. No matter how hard you try, you don’t provide enough options to suit everybody. But having just been told for the gazillionth time that I am not a Christian, I would like very much to hear where you draw the line and why. Personally, I don’t exclude anyone from the Christian family who sincerely considers himself to be a Christian. But a lot of other people do – and for a variety of reasons. The following criteria seem to be the most often mentioned:

Well, I'm more or less with you on this. I think that anyone who tries to follow Christ and considers themself a Christian should be considered Christian to one degree or another. I don't see Christianity as being an all or nothing thing. Obviously, I consider that the whole Truth of Christianity is found in Orthodoxy and nowhere else, but I would never say that a heterodox Christian is, in fact non-Christian. They may be very close to or quite far from the Truth and still be Christian. If we were talking about where the Church was my answer would be more black and white, however (as I'm sure you're aware), but I have no doubt that there are many Christians, both good and bad, outside of the Church.

1. A Christian must look to Jesus Christ for salvation and worship Him as God’s Only Begotten Son.
Well, I would agree with this one and I think almost all Christians would at least agree with the first half of the statement - the Only Begotten Son part would presumably cause issues for those groups furthest from historical Christianity.

2. A Christian must accept certain core doctrines above and beyond a belief in Jesus Christ’s divinity and power to save. I’m thinking of such doctrines as “sola scriptura, sola fide, the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc.
Well I agree, but I don't think most of these are core doctrines, certainly not things like sola scriptura or sola fide, both of which are very recent doctrines indeed and rejected by the vast majority of Christians both present and past.

3. A Christian must pattern his or her life in accordance with Jesus’ example of loving one’s enemies and treating the entire human family with compassion and respect.
If you'd written should or ought to here I'd have agreed totally, but as everyone fails at this, some frequently some less so, I'd be seriously loathe to tell someone they weren't Christian because they didn't always behave appropriately.

4. A Christian must be “born again.” Once such a person becomes a Christian he is assured of salvation no matter what.
Absolutely not. Neither I nor any other Orthodox Christian believes that anyone can ever have assurance of salvation, and certainly not by a simple confession as is usually held to be effective by believers in OSAS. In actual fact, I don't think such believers really believe this either (or they haven't quite worked out the implications of said belief). If a confession of faith in Christ were enough to ensure salvation then all of us Christians would be automatically saved - but the same people who hold such beliefs usually approve of evangelising all us 'poor, damned Catholics' (whether Orthodox or Roman) as well as groups such as your own church.

Could we please discuss these four criteria, and any others you believe apply? I would also like to know where everyone’s definition comes from, be it from the Bible, the teachings of his or her own denomination, from a personal conviction, etc. And please, let’s not get into which denominations are or are not “the genuine article.” Let’s stick to a discussion of what a Christian is.
Obviously, your question is going to bring up a lot of opposing viewpoints and there's no way that we're going to come up with a definitive list of objective criteria. Personally, I judge the Christianity of a person's beliefs by how closely they correspond to the teachings of the (Orthodox) Church. I'm perfectly happy to admit this and don't believe there is a better way. I'm sure others do the same with reference to their own churches and, if they sincerely believe in them, this is entirely appropriate. I'd be interested to see just how many people here are willing to admit to using their church's teachings as the yardstick, though.

James
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Katzpur said:

I was going to make this a poll, but polls are so difficult. No matter how hard you try, you don’t provide enough options to suit everybody. But having just been told for the gazillionth time that I am not a Christian, I would like very much to hear where you draw the line and why. Personally, I don’t exclude anyone from the Christian family who sincerely considers himself to be a Christian. But a lot of other people do – and for a variety of reasons. The following criteria seem to be the most often mentioned:

1. A Christian must look to Jesus Christ for salvation and worship Him as God’s Only Begotten Son.

2. A Christian must accept certain core doctrines above and beyond a belief in Jesus Christ’s divinity and power to save. I’m thinking of such doctrines as “sola scriptura, sola fide, the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc.

3. A Christian must pattern his or her life in accordance with Jesus’ example of loving one’s enemies and treating the entire human family with compassion and respect.

4. A Christian must be “born again.” Once such a person becomes a Christian he is assured of salvation no matter what.

Could we please discuss these four criteria, and any others you believe apply? I would also like to know where everyone’s definition comes from, be it from the Bible, the teachings of his or her own denomination, from a personal conviction, etc. And please, let’s not get into which denominations are or are not “the genuine article.” Let’s stick to a discussion of what a Christian is.
As a 'new boy', I see

1.definitely.

2.Personally, I am happy with "the Trinity, the need for baptism, requirements for salvation, etc..........."

3. As James said, I would prefer 'must make every effort to attempt to'

4. I do not agree.

like I said, I am a 'New Boy to most of this, and realize that there are still inner conflicts I need to address.;)
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Fluffy said:

Sola scriptura and sola fide are rejected by Catholics. ... Does this mean that they are exlcuded from Christianhood?
No, but appearantly it means we're excluded from christianity. Oh, the hypocrasy...
How can anyone who call a rc christian and at the same time call lds not christian because they have more books?
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Aqualung said:
No, but appearantly it means we're excluded from christianity. Oh, the hypocrasy...
No one has the right or power to exclude you or anyone from Christianity... but that does not change my right as a person to define what Christian means to me. My Church has been fighting heresy since the beginning of the Christian Church, and have tried to teach against what we feel are doctrines aimed at the destruction of historical, orthodox Christianity. We teach against the Gnostics, Manichaeans, and Montanists; and in our own time Mormons, St. Simonians, phalansterians, and communists... I don't understand why any Mormon would not get this.:confused:
How can anyone who call a rc christian and at the same time call lds not christian because they have more books?
It has nothing to do with the amount of books.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
I'd say a Christian is anyone who follows Jesus's teachings, so i'd go for 3.

A Christian must pattern his or her life in accordance with Jesus’ example of loving one’s enemies and treating the entire human family with compassion and respect.
As an aside, Scott, the Manichaens were not a Chritian heresy whose purpose was the destruction of Pauline Christianity. They were more like Islam is today, they recognised Jesus as a prophet, one in a long line culminating in Mani, much as Muslims believe in a simlar line culminating in Muhammed. Would you call Islam a Christian heresy?
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Yes it is Victor.

You know very well i'm a Gnostic Scott, though it is my own personal variation - i've made that more clear now.

My statement still stands.
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Scott1 said:
No one has the right or power to exclude you or anyone from Christianity... but that does not change my right as a person to define what Christian means to me.
No, of course. I was refferring to certain sects of christianity who will say that a catholic is a christian (even though they accept works outside of the Bible) yet will condemn me as not being christian because I accept other books.
Scott1 said:
I don't understand why any Mormon would not get this.
I get it. The coment wasn't even aimed at you.
Scott1 said:
It has nothing to do with the amount of books.
Once again, I wasn't even talking about you. I was just exposing the hypocrasy of those who will say I'm not a christian because I beleive there are more books than the Bible. To them, the number does matter.
 

fromthe heart

Well-Known Member
To me a Christian is one who has asked for forgivness of their sins to Jesus Christ and has taken Him into their heart and has been baptised in the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit...in doing this one is a Christian and their lives will show it.

There are many who call themselves Christian who are in fact NOT but are acting as one but aren't one in their hearts....they feel being 'good will get them points somehow and it won't because God does not reccognize persons...He only sees the sin unless it's been washed away by the blood of Jesus...no one will see the kingdom of heaven without their sins being washed by Christ's blood!!!

The church you go to has nothing to do with salvation; works in life have nothing to do with it either...I've known folks who attented church all their lives but were never truely saved by Christs blood shed for them on the cross because they did NOT ask for His forgivness.....as for some of what has been mentioned we all are entitled to our own truths...but the Holy Scriptures are the one truth....You must be saved to enter the kingdom of God!...that's for Catholics,LDS,and all churchs which all of us attend....the church isn't what counts...it's what's in ones heart!!! No one but yourself can determine that...You and You alone know by scripture if you are in fact a real Christian or a pretend one...we all will one day answer to God for all.:)
 

robtex

Veteran Member
MOD POST:

Please remember this is a same-faith debate section. This disscussion is for Christians only. Thank you.

robtex ,
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
IacobPersul said:
Well, I'm more or less with you on this. I think that anyone who tries to follow Christ and considers themself a Christian should be considered Christian to one degree or another. I don't see Christianity as being an all or nothing thing. Obviously, I consider that the whole Truth of Christianity is found in Orthodoxy and nowhere else, but I would never say that a heterodox Christian is, in fact non-Christian. They may be very close to or quite far from the Truth and still be Christian. If we were talking about where the Church was my answer would be more black and white, however (as I'm sure you're aware), but I have no doubt that there are many Christians, both good and bad, outside of the Church.
I don't see how you could possibly have stated this much better. I agree with you 100%.

Well, I would agree with this one and I think almost all Christians would at least agree with the first half of the statement - the Only Begotten Son part would presumably cause issues for those groups furthest from historical Christianity.
I'm not quite sure I know what you mean when you say that "the Only Begotten Son part would cause issues for some." Could you explain what you believe these "issues" to be?

Well I agree, but I don't think most of these are core doctrines, certainly not things like sola scriptura or sola fide, both of which are very recent doctrines indeed and rejected by the vast majority of Christians both present and past.
Unless I am mistaken, roughly one half of the world's 2 billion Christians are Roman Catholic. I don't know how many more are Eastern Orthodox. (You could probably help me out on this.) One way or the other, though, pretty close to half of those who consider themselves to be Christians are Protestants, and the vast majority of them do believe in sola scriptura. Slightly fewer believe in sola fide. But I have heard many of them say, as I'm sure you have, that Roman Catholics are not Christians -- at least in part because Roman Catholics reject these two doctrines. Presumably these same conservative Protestants would also say that Orthodox Christians aren't "the real thing" either.

If you'd written should or ought to here I'd have agreed totally, but as everyone fails at this, some frequently some less so, I'd be seriously loathe to tell someone they weren't Christian because they didn't always behave appropriately.
Agreed. Nobody's perfect, but I'd say (and it appears that you agree) that this should at least be the goal of every Christian.

Absolutely not. Neither I nor any other Orthodox Christian believes that anyone can ever have assurance of salvation, and certainly not by a simple confession as is usually held to be effective by believers in OSAS. In actual fact, I don't think such believers really believe this either (or they haven't quite worked out the implications of said belief). If a confession of faith in Christ were enough to ensure salvation then all of us Christians would be automatically saved - but the same people who hold such beliefs usually approve of evangelising all us 'poor, damned Catholics' (whether Orthodox or Roman) as well as groups such as your own church.
I agree, although I personally do believe in being "born again" in an entirely different sense. When I use that phrase, I'm not talking about instant, irreversible salvation (which doctrine I totally reject). I'm talking about a sincere change of heart, a deep-down rejoicing in Christ's grace and a faith in the power of the Atonement.

Obviously, your question is going to bring up a lot of opposing viewpoints and there's no way that we're going to come up with a definitive list of objective criteria. Personally, I judge the Christianity of a person's beliefs by how closely they correspond to the teachings of the (Orthodox) Church. I'm perfectly happy to admit this and don't believe there is a better way. I'm sure others do the same with reference to their own churches and, if they sincerely believe in them, this is entirely appropriate. I'd be interested to see just how many people here are willing to admit to using their church's teachings as the yardstick, though.
Hmmm... I'm a little bit confused at how this fits in with your first paragraph. You almost seem to contradict yourself here. Would you mind clarifiying what you mean? And thanks for taking the time to respond.

Kathryn
 
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