Christian Warfare

[tom foolery]

What can we honestly expect from the Christian God when he creates evil, disaster and calamity (Isaiah 45:7)? God's treatment of humanity has been extremely atrocious, sadistic tyrannical and cruel. He is undeniably guilty of immeasurable crimes against humanity. He is undeniably guilty of committing global genocide. According to the Bible, God has foreknowledge and infinite wisdom, therefore, he knew before he created anything that mankind would fall into depravity. And according to the Bible, God has infinite power, which means he could immediately intervene and stop the immeasurable human suffering, but he turns a blind eye.

In the King James Version, Isaiah 45:7 reads, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Evil is defined as 1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked, 2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful, and 3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous.

In the New International Version, Isaiah 45:7 reads, "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." Disaster is defined as 1. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe, 2. A grave misfortune, and 3. A total failure.

In the English Standard Version, Isaiah 45:7 reads "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things." Calamity is defined as 1. An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster, 2. Dire distress resulting from loss or tragedy, and 3. Any great misfortune or cause of misery; in general, any event or disaster which produces extensive evils, as loss of crops, earthquakes, etc., but also applied to any misfortune which brings great distress upon a single person; misfortune; distress; adversity.

it is a bit worse than that sir pepper. if god has omnicognisance, omnipresence and omnipotence and created the universe then these things were defined the moment the universe was created. everything that occurred or will occur was defined by the god in that instant. the entirety of creation decided then. every single act happens as a result of that creation. there is no free will. so people are condemned to hell or heaven for eternity because that course was laid out for them at the moment of creation. people, angels and demons, every single eventuality is known and created at that point. there is no other way it can be if an all knowing being creates the universe, arguably reality. lucky i'm agnostic. otherwise i might go mad thinking about it.

 

[Harel13]

yes. but the message everyone got was 'turn the other cheek'. now i'm not saying you are wrong but either you believe in your doctrine or you do not.

What doctrine? I'm an Orthodox Jew. What is it that you think I'm arguing for?

 

[Harel13]

Matthew 2:13 his Father's house is a house of prayer - not a cave of robbers.
Mark 11:17 they made a house of prayer into a cave of robbers. ( form of extortion by charging exorbitant prices )
Luke 19:46 .... a house of prayer, they made it a cave of robbers.
John 2:16 ... they were making his Father's house a house of greedy business ( instead of prayer ).

I literally wrote "without using the NT".

 

[Harel13]

I think that's why people like Matthew Levi and Zachaeus were hated supposedly, because they pocketed money above and beyond the tax amount.

Could be, but were they collecting half-shekels?

 

[tom foolery]

What doctrine? I'm an Orthodox Jew. What is it that you think I'm arguing for?

oh? in that case i am reasonably sure it is not 'christian warfare'

 

[DNB]

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I am of the belief that I should not fight, or resort to physical violence. At points in the past, as a younger soul, I tried to justify defensive warfare, but as an older person I have become convinced of the rightness of non-violence.

The passage of scripture that plays loudly in my ears is Ephesians 6:10-12. It says,'Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places'.

Some people regard non-violence as a form of cowardice, but my belief is that it is better to sacrifice one's life non-violently, than to sacrifice it attempting to take the lives of others. Jesus set an example of non-violence.

I'm not so naive as to think that there isn't great pain involved in the non-violent response to evil. It raises many difficult questions, but I believe the long term consequences of non-violence benefits all mankind.

What do you think?

Yes, I agree with you. Our fight is not against flesh and blood, and wisdom can break down fortresses.
Typically, it is a shame to have to resort to violence in order to resolve an issue, or make a point. The taunting of a fool should never threaten a wise and confident person.

A person should never die or fight for the country, for their country is an arbitrary political border that no person ever has control as to where they are born. Plus, one's country cannot save you from harm (necessarily), or especially from perdition . Therefore, why give it such devotion and honour as though it defines who you are, or that you owe it your life and blood?

But, as you said, it does raise many difficult questions: should a man not physically protect his family from a violent and imminent threat?


Ecclesiastes 9:18
Wisdom is better than weapons of war

Proverbs 21:22
A wise man scales the city of the mighty and pulls down the stronghold in which they trust.

Ecclesiastes 9:15
Now a poor wise man was found in the city, and he saved the city by his wisdom.

Ecclesiastes 7:19
Wisdom makes one wise person more powerful than ten rulers in a city.

 

[ppp]

Multiple choice (?) or rather researching by parallel or corresponding cross-reference verses and passages showing the internal harmony among the many Bible writers

Multiple choice.

 

[tom foolery]

What doctrine? I'm an Orthodox Jew. What is it that you think I'm arguing for?

i just looked at my reply again and it might have seemed that i was being a richard. the truth of the matter is that you have an opinion on this subject that i would like to hear. i am also non christian and i think it helps me to hear as many different views from as many rational people as i can. i was not trying to offend in any way.

 

[Harel13]

i just looked at my reply again and it might have seemed that i was being a richard. the truth of the matter is that you have an opinion on this subject that i would like to hear. i am also non christian and i think it helps me to hear as many different views from as many rational people as i can. i was not trying to offend in any way.

I'm not offended. You're not the first person on this thread to quote one of my posts thinking for some reason that I'm Christian.
I hope for world peace one day, but I'm not against using violence along the way. Sometimes it's necessary. And it's not always evil.

 

[tom foolery]

i quite agree

 

[tom foolery]

an eye for an eye yada yada does not quite do the job. justice is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[tom foolery]

Yes, I agree with you. Our fight is not against flesh and blood, and wisdom can break down fortresses.
Typically, it is a shame to have to resort to violence in order to resolve an issue, or make a point. The taunting of a fool should never threaten a wise and confident person.

A person should never die or fight for the country, for their country is an arbitrary political border that no person ever has control as to where they are born. Plus, one's country cannot save you from harm (necessarily), or especially from perdition . Therefore, why give it such devotion and honour as though it defines who you are, or that you owe it your life and blood?

But, as you said, it does raise many difficult questions: should a man not physically protect his family from a violent and imminent threat?


Ecclesiastes 9:18
Wisdom is better than weapons of war

Proverbs 21:22
A wise man scales the city of the mighty and pulls down the stronghold in which they trust.

Ecclesiastes 9:15
Now a poor wise man was found in the city, and he saved the city by his wisdom.

Ecclesiastes 7:19
Wisdom makes one wise person more powerful than ten rulers in a city.

that is not a difficult question. a man should physically protect his family from a violent and imminent threat. without question, without hesitation. i suspect you are testing the bounds of 'violent and immediate threat', though.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There's a covenant on the deeds of homes around here!
However, if you have accepted s covenant then it's up to you to keep it. Jesus was quite clear about riches, wealth and mammon, for example, but I don't often see Christians who have taken any notice of that....just one example of words rather than deeds. Yes?

Isn't this a case of judging your neighbour?
You don't have to be a Christian to come under the condemnation of Jesus' words!

 

[Sedim Haba]

Not towards people. The incident in the Temple did not involve an attack on the traders, only on their tables and wares.

And innocent trees along the way, even though it wasn't the right season...

But that's in Mark, and I only accept Matthew. But Xians accept it, so what does that say?

 

[Redemptionsong]

i am not a follower of your ideaology. i was brought up with it, though. i am surprised to see a christian want to see people argue this point. do you have doubts about it?

I don't think faith is static. I've reached my present position on the issue of violence as my faith has deepened.

 

[Redemptionsong]

And innocent trees along the way, even though it wasn't the right season...

But that's in Mark, and I only accept Matthew. But Xians accept it, so what does that say?

How can you possibly only accept one Gospel? There needs to be a recognition of the overlap of information to gather the whole truth about Jesus as Christ.

 

[Sedim Haba]

I don't think faith is static. I've reached my present position on the issue of violence as my faith has deepened.

Ever been drafted to fight in a war against your will? Yes, I have. No choice.

 

[Sedim Haba]

How can you possibly only accept one Gospel? There needs to be a recognition of the overlap of information to gather the whole truth about Jesus as Christ.

I can because even that gospel is partially corrupted by Rome, but not as much corrupted as the rest.

... and his name is Yeshua. You don't even get his name right.

 

[oldbadger]

Isn't this a case of judging your neighbour?
You don't have to be a Christian to come under the condemnation of Jesus' words!

Ni I'm not judging my neighbours, I don't know any Christians that are neighbours.
Christians don't listen to many of Jesus's words imo, but Deists are governed not by the words of Jesus but by the resident power around here, Mother Nature, and do we would feel more close to the Druids and Wicca I think. I'm only just learning about that so you would need advice from such as the @The Hammer but certainly you, me and all others stoop before Mother Nature.

 

[tom foolery]

I don't think faith is static. I've reached my present position on the issue of violence as my faith has deepened.

Ni I'm not judging my neighbours, I don't know any Christians that are neighbours.
Christians don't listen to many of Jesus's words imo, but Deists are governed not by the words of Jesus but by the resident power around here, Mother Nature, and do we would feel more close to the Druids and Wicca I think. I'm only just learning about that so you would need advice from such as the @The Hammer but certainly you, me and all others stoop before Mother Nature.

being a site specializing in religion i expect this happens a lot