Christian views on life, death, and the resurrection

[Pipiripi]

You're not compromising your position or conviction by acknowledging that you interpret the Bible. Suppose you say to me "I interpret the Bible strictly and there is no other correct interpretation. I know what God means and your interpretation, Scott, is incorrect." Now I will disagree with you, but at least what you said makes sense. But when you say "I do not interpret the scripture. Everyone else does", that just makes no sense. You are no different than any other Christian who sincerely studies the Bible and wants to correctly understand what God means. We call that interpretation.

I understand you. Read Galatians 1:1-10. And Revelation 22:18-19. If someone tells me something from the Bible, the must show me where I can read it. If someone says to me the Trinity God or triune god, I will see it written in the Bible. If someone tell me God Father God Son and God Holy Spirit. I will read it in the Bible. Do you understand me now? I belief what is written in the Bible. Not man teachings, but Jesus and the apostles teachings.

 

[Pipiripi]

The Bible does NOT interpret itself. We human beings interpret it; you interpret it one way and I interpret it another way. If you don't want to believe you have a spirit of your own that was given to you by God, that's fine with me. That's between you and God, just as what I believe is between me and God.

One must be good, and will proof you now why my belief is BIBLICAL.
Read Matthew 12:43-45. If you don't see this truth BIBLICAL I don't no more where to let you see. Because you are not open for believing only in the Bible.

 

[Katzpur]

One must be good, and will proof you now why my belief is BIBLICAL.
Read Matthew 12:43-45. If you don't see this truth BIBLICAL I don't no more where to let you see. Because you are not open for believing only in the Bible.

That's right. I'm "not open for believing only in the Bible." I look for truth wherever it may be found. And Matthew 12:43-45 does not prove that we do not each have a spirit. I'm afraid you've failed in your attempt to convince me otherwise.

 

[Brian2]

No, it doesn't "have to mean" that, but neither does it preclude that possibility. You seem to be implying that it does.

No it does not preclude that possibility.

Well, I appreciate your honesty. I, too, believe Satan has misled people over the ages, and that many truths that were originally taught by Christ and His Apostles were lost during Christianity's first few centuries.

Why do you think that truths were lost during Christianity's first few centuries?

It's just your tone. It's very judgmental. Personally, I think we can have differences of opinion without having to let our emotions get in the way of trying to understand one another's positions. If that doesn't work for you, I understand.

I do probably come across as judgemental at times.
Maybe it is because I am. But really I know I should not be judgemental of what people believe or why. It is amazing how tone can come across on forums and also how at times the tone can be misunderstood.

 

[Scott C.]

I understand you. Read Galatians 1:1-10. And Revelation 22:18-19. If someone tells me something from the Bible, the must show me where I can read it. If someone says to me the Trinity God or triune god, I will see it written in the Bible. If someone tell me God Father God Son and God Holy Spirit. I will read it in the Bible. Do you understand me now? I belief what is written in the Bible. Not man teachings, but Jesus and the apostles teachings.

Yes I understand that you believe what is written in the Bible, no more or less. And yes, I accept scriptures other than the Bible. I understand why my appeal to those other scriptures would not impress you. But my point is that there are millions (or billions) of Christians who would say with complete sincerity exactly what you said above. Yet they would disagree on points of doctrine because they read the exact same scripture differently. A conversation among such Christians could go like this:

Christian 1: "Doctrine x is plainly taught in this verse."
Christian 2: "No that is not what that verse means."
Christian 1: "Yes it is what God means. He said it right there in the verse."
Christian 2: "I'm sorry friend, but God said the scriptures are not for personal interpretation. I believe only what God says".
Christian 1: "I am not personally interpreting the scriptures. I'm just reading what God said. Why do you not believe what God says?"
Christian 2: "Satan has decieved you into believing that which is not written."
Christian 1: "No my friend, you are misinterpreting that which God plainly said in this verse. Shame on you for your personal interpretation."

My theory is that neither Christian 1 or Christian 2 likes to admit to this, as they think it weakens the Bible. It implies the Bible does not interpret itself and it's teachings are not always self evident. That begs the question of why God would leave us in a tentative position with ambiguity. Those are hard questions to answer for Christians who believe what you said above.

 

[Katzpur]

Why do you think that truths were lost during Christianity's first few centuries?

I believe it was due to lack of apostolic leadership. Once the Apostles all died and no one had been called to replace them, congregations of Christians were essentially on their own, and false doctrines began to creep in to corrupt Christ's original teachings. Paul prophesied of a "falling away and was concerned that it was happening even as he spoke. It's an entirely different subject than the one we're discussing though, and while I am passionate about it, I'd prefer not to get into it in this particular thread.

I do probably come across as judgemental at times. Maybe it is because I am. But really I know I should not be judgemental of what people believe or why. It is amazing how tone can come across on forums and also how at times the tone can be misunderstood.

I think you're right. It's hard sometimes for people to say what they want to say on forums and come across the way they want to come across. Everyone is so concerned with being "right" that nothing else seems to matter. I've been on this forum for over fifteen years now, and it's gotten to the point where I just don't feel like arguing anymore. I'd much prefer a conversation that goes something like this: "Here's what I believe and why.... What do you believe and why do you believe as you do?" I think we can all learn from one another, and express differences of opinion without being insulting. That's what I strive for, but I'm pretty hot-tempered. Sometimes I just have to walk away from a discussion before I end up saying something I later regret. I'm always looking for common ground, though, and am always trying to understand (if not agree with) other people's interpretations of scripture.

 

[Pipiripi]

Yes I understand that you believe what is written in the Bible, no more or less. And yes, I accept scriptures other than the Bible. I understand why my appeal to those other scriptures would not impress you. But my point is that there are millions (or billions) of Christians who would say with complete sincerity exactly what you said above. Yet they would disagree on points of doctrine because they read the exact same scripture differently. A conversation among such Christians could go like this:

Christian 1: "Doctrine x is plainly taught in this verse."
Christian 2: "No that is not what that verse means."
Christian 1: "Yes it is what God means. He said it right there in the verse."
Christian 2: "I'm sorry friend, but God said the scriptures are not for personal interpretation. I believe only what God says".
Christian 1: "I am not personally interpreting the scriptures. I'm just reading what God said. Why do you not believe what God says?"
Christian 2: "Satan has decieved you into believing that which is not written."
Christian 1: "No my friend, you are misinterpreting that which God plainly said in this verse. Shame on you for your personal interpretation."

My theory is that neither Christian 1 or Christian 2 likes to admit to this, as they think it weakens the Bible. It implies the Bible does not interpret itself and it's teachings are not always self evident. That begs the question of why God would leave us in a tentative position with ambiguity. Those are hard questions to answer for Christians who believe what you said above.

What you say impress me, I understand how you put the things together. My question is if we have the Bible as our guidelines, why most we question what is written? If I cannot understand what or why it has happened then God sent someone to help me, maybe you. So it works. We are the body and Christ is the head. The problem is that we are not studying together but debating against each other. God wants us to be one in mind and actions.
If you make a statement if I don't understand what you are saying there, you must let me see why or how you come to that conclusion. I am not going debate against you. I hope that you understand me. If Paul said in Galatians 1:1-10, I will be just like him. God bless you friend. And sorry for my English, because I'm not an English man.

 

[Pipiripi]

That's right. I'm "not open for believing only in the Bible." I look for truth wherever it may be found. And Matthew 12:43-45 does not prove that we do not each have a spirit. I'm afraid you've failed in your attempt to convince me otherwise.

I will never fail, I'm afraid if you stop searching for the truth. Let's begin exactly where you think that we have a being Spirit trapped in us.
Please take a look in here.
end-times-prophecy.org

 

[Katzpur]

I will never fail, I'm afraid if you stop searching for the truth. Let's begin exactly where you think that we have a being Spirit trapped in us.

For starters, I never said a thing -- not one single, solitary thing -- about having a spirit "trapped" in us, so I would appreciate very much your not putting words into my mouth.

Please take a look in here.
end-times-prophecy.org

Sorry, Pipiripi, but I have my own beliefs and I'm very comfortable with them. I'm not searching for something different. Please find someone else to harass.

 

[Pipiripi]

For starters, I never said a thing -- not one single, solitary thing -- about having a spirit "trapped" in us, so I would appreciate very much your not putting words into my mouth.

Sorry, Pipiripi, but I have my own beliefs and I'm very comfortable with them. I'm not searching for something different. Please find someone else to harass.

Goodbye be blessed.

 

[Brian2]

I believe it was due to lack of apostolic leadership. Once the Apostles all died and no one had been called to replace them, congregations of Christians were essentially on their own, and false doctrines began to creep in to corrupt Christ's original teachings. Paul prophesied of a "falling away and was concerned that it was happening even as he spoke. It's an entirely different subject than the one we're discussing though, and while I am passionate about it, I'd prefer not to get into it in this particular thread.

I think you're right. It's hard sometimes for people to say what they want to say on forums and come across the way they want to come across. Everyone is so concerned with being "right" that nothing else seems to matter. I've been on this forum for over fifteen years now, and it's gotten to the point where I just don't feel like arguing anymore. I'd much prefer a conversation that goes something like this: "Here's what I believe and why.... What do you believe and why do you believe as you do?" I think we can all learn from one another, and express differences of opinion without being insulting. That's what I strive for, but I'm pretty hot-tempered. Sometimes I just have to walk away from a discussion before I end up saying something I later regret. I'm always looking for common ground, though, and am always trying to understand (if not agree with) other people's interpretations of scripture.

After 15 years you should know all about discussions and how they can go and where they might end up.
I find I have to go a bit further than just finding out what and why people believe something however even if at times it tends to put up a wall of defence between myself and the one I am talking with.
So what do you believe and why?

 

[Katzpur]

After 15 years you should know all about discussions and how they can go and where they might end up.
I find I have to go a bit further than just finding out what and why people believe something however even if at times it tends to put up a wall of defence between myself and the one I am talking with.
So what do you believe and why?

After 15 years, I've also learned to pick up on subtle innuendos. The rolling eyes says it all. Let's just agree to disagree, Brian, and both move on. Have a good one!

 

[Brian2]

After 15 years, I've also learned to pick up on subtle innuendos. The rolling eyes says it all. Let's just agree to disagree, Brian, and both move on. Have a good one!

Yes I like the role as the provocateur, and sometimes I make that role plain.
Bye for now.

 

[Katzpur]

I found a fascinating article on a Jewish website (www.chabad.org) called The Soul and Heaven in Judaism. Obviously, Jewish beliefs and LDS beliefs are not identical. If they were, the Later-day Saints would be Jewish, not Christian. But I was amazed at the similarities between LDS thought and Jewish thought on the subject being debated in this thread. Specifically, very early on in the article, it states:

While there are numerous stations in a soul’s journey, these can generally be grouped into four general phases:

1. the wholly spiritual existence of the soul before it enters the body;
2. physical life;
3. post-physical life in Gan Eden (the “Garden of Eden,” also called “Heaven” and “Paradise”);
4. the “world to come” (olam haba) that follows the resurrection of the dead.

Food for thought, at least.

 

[Katzpur]

And sorry for my English, because I'm not an English man.

Just curious (if you don't mind, @Pipiripi)... Where are you from and what's your native language?

 

[Scott C.]

What you say impress me, I understand how you put the things together. My question is if we have the Bible as our guidelines, why most we question what is written? If I cannot understand what or why it has happened then God sent someone to help me, maybe you. So it works. We are the body and Christ is the head. The problem is that we are not studying together but debating against each other. God wants us to be one in mind and actions.
If you make a statement if I don't understand what you are saying there, you must let me see why or how you come to that conclusion. I am not going debate against you. I hope that you understand me. If Paul said in Galatians 1:1-10, I will be just like him. God bless you friend. And sorry for my English, because I'm not an English man.

I enjoy talking to you friend. I like to understand how others think and believe without the intention to argue. Peace.