1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christian: Sola Scriptura

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Uncertaindrummer, Jul 6, 2005.

  1. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    Thanks, Scott.

    But what, then, is your reading of the verse? How do you interpret it?
     
  2. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    You won't get that question answered, Linus, I guarantee it. And believe me, I'm speaking from experience here.

    Most 'experts' here know what our Bible shouldn't say, but none of these 'experts' know what it should say.

    I love it, though!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +953
    You're welcome.

    I read the verse in context.

    2 Tim 3
    14 But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it, 15 and that from infancy you have known (the) sacred scriptures, which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
    Verse 14 reminds Timothy to remain faithful to the Gospel, because of whom he learned it from: Paul... by his WORDS and letters. (Read 2 Tim 1:13, 2:2)
    Verse 15 shows us that Timothy has been faithful to the Scriptues since his infancy... which obviously shows that Paul (a once zealous Jew) is refering to the OT... the NT was yet to be completed and common sense would tell you that it took many years to collect and proclaim which were authentic Scripture and which were not.
    Verse 16 says exactly what it says... truly inspired by God, Scripture is useful for teaching, etc etc....but in light of Verse 15, it is clear to me that it means the OT.
    And finally verse 17 explains that the OT will equip a Christian to be grounded in God the Father, able to reveal the Gospel of the Son, the original "good work":)

    ... but even if somehow you manage to convince yourself that V16 applies itself to the NT, nothing changes.... Scripture is usefull for those things, but I don't think that it implies that is ALL a Christian needs.... I do think if this was the case, Paul would have spent more time talking about this important information than about the qualifications for Bishops.

    Don't you think this important fact... the MOST important teaching in all of scripture - would have been given more emphasis if that is what God wanted?

    I'll be waiting for your apology.

    2 Tim 2:24-25
    A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness.
     
  4. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,536
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Linus,

    How on earth can you interpret those verses to say that all we need are the scriptures? That's not what they say at all. The fact that all scripture is inspired by God means just that: All scripture is inspired by God! It's profitable (i.e. worthwhile, useful, etc.) in teaching the gospel and preparing us to become spiritually mature. I sounds to me as if you're forming an opinion and then trying to make the Bible support that opinion instead of the other way around.

    One more question... If the Bible alone is sufficient, why are there over 30,000 different Christian denominations in the world today -- the vast majority of them claiming that scripture alone is sufficient, but all of them interpreting them differently? Are you saying you don't see this as a problem?

    Kathryn
     
  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,536
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    And just what should the Bible say, AV, since you obviously know something the rest of us don't?
     
  6. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,536
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    You won't get an apology, Scott. I guarantee it. And believe me, I'm speaking from experience here.
     
  7. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +953
    Hehe... I bet I will now... just to prove you wrong.... this AV fellow seems to have quite the fan club... theists and non-theists alike:biglaugh: .
     
  8. Uncertaindrummer

    Uncertaindrummer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    308
    Ratings:
    +31
    Who? What? Where?

    Tell me where the verse claims that the Bible is sufficient for our salvation? Show me where the word "Sufficient" even appears?

    To James: have you checked your inbox in a while? Becuase it appears you asnwered my question without even knowing it... lol
     
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    How is Linus forming an opinion?

    Here's what it says:
    • All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
    • All scripture is profitable for doctrine.
    • All scripture is profitable for reproof.
    • All scripture is profitable for correction.
    • All scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.
    For what purpose?

    THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT [i.e. "complete"] THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.

    And you ask Linus if that's all we need???

    What more do you want???

    That's an overstatement if ever I heard one. Name me just 5 Christan denominations in this world today that use Sola Scriptura, and show me how they interpret the same verse differently. (This oughta be good.)
     
  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    2 Timothy 3:15 = AND THAT FROM A CHILD THOU HAST KNOWN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, WHICH ARE ABLE TO MAKE THEE WISE UNTO SALVATION THROUGH FAITH WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS.
     
  11. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    Scott, what's this all about? Apology for what?

    And what's this 'slave of the Lord' junk?
     
  12. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +953
    OK Katzpur, you were right... I owe you 5 bucks.:D
     
  13. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14,599
    Ratings:
    +1,793
    Do you think she'll take coins, Scott? I'm happy to donate. *digs through pocketses*

    I will refrain from commenting further, as I do not want to... erm... do what I really want to do.
     
  14. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    Yeah ... that's real cute ... reminds me of some Roman soldiers at the foot of the Cross casting lots when Jesus was being crucified --- (Matthew 27:35; John 19:24).
     
  15. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +953
    God bless you AV.
     
  16. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14,599
    Ratings:
    +1,793
    Thank you, Scott, for being gentle unto all men. You and some others continually display the beauty of someone who follows their faith.
     
  17. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    I hate to interrupt your nitrous oxide party, but would you please tell me what that 'slave of the Lord' garbage was?

    Does God have slaves now?
     
  18. SoyLeche

    SoyLeche meh...

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,518
    Ratings:
    +879
    Religion:
    LDS
    I think the problem comes from making the jump from "All scripture is from God" to "The Bible is the only book of scripture". You do realize that the verse quoted was written many, many years before the Bible was compiled, right?


    (This has probably already been covered, I haven't followed the whole thread)
     
  19. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    Hi, Soy, nice to meet you.

    Yes, those words were written circa 66 AD, and the autographing completed 30 years later. They have since been purified and preserved and transmitted to us as the King James AV1611 Bible - (Psalm 12:6-7). Thus we know today exactly what they were taught back then.
     
  20. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14,599
    Ratings:
    +1,793
    'Servant' is another translation. In either case, the point of the psalm is the same.
     
Loading...