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Christian: Sola Scriptura

Linus

Well-Known Member
Scott1 said:
Bless you Linus... this thread and those like it don't do much to promote the Gospel... while I may not agree with your reading of 2Tim, I just want to make it clear that the most important thing is that you have faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior... how you come to salvation is secondary to my happiness that you will be saved!:jiggy:
Thanks, Scott.

But what, then, is your reading of the verse? How do you interpret it?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Linus said:
Thanks, Scott.

But what, then, is your reading of the verse? How do you interpret it?
You won't get that question answered, Linus, I guarantee it. And believe me, I'm speaking from experience here.

Most 'experts' here know what our Bible shouldn't say, but none of these 'experts' know what it should say.

I love it, though!
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Linus said:
But what, then, is your reading of the verse? How do you interpret it?
You're welcome.

I read the verse in context.

2 Tim 3
14 But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it, 15 and that from infancy you have known (the) sacred scriptures, which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Verse 14 reminds Timothy to remain faithful to the Gospel, because of whom he learned it from: Paul... by his WORDS and letters. (Read 2 Tim 1:13, 2:2)
Verse 15 shows us that Timothy has been faithful to the Scriptues since his infancy... which obviously shows that Paul (a once zealous Jew) is refering to the OT... the NT was yet to be completed and common sense would tell you that it took many years to collect and proclaim which were authentic Scripture and which were not.
Verse 16 says exactly what it says... truly inspired by God, Scripture is useful for teaching, etc etc....but in light of Verse 15, it is clear to me that it means the OT.
And finally verse 17 explains that the OT will equip a Christian to be grounded in God the Father, able to reveal the Gospel of the Son, the original "good work":)

... but even if somehow you manage to convince yourself that V16 applies itself to the NT, nothing changes.... Scripture is usefull for those things, but I don't think that it implies that is ALL a Christian needs.... I do think if this was the case, Paul would have spent more time talking about this important information than about the qualifications for Bishops.

Don't you think this important fact... the MOST important teaching in all of scripture - would have been given more emphasis if that is what God wanted?

AV1611 said:
You won't get that question answered, Linus, I guarantee it. And believe me, I'm speaking from experience here.
I'll be waiting for your apology.

2 Tim 2:24-25
A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Linus said:
This thread has gone on for a while, and I haven't read most of it. So here is my 2 cents really quick, in response to the original question.

2 Timothy 3: 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work

According to this verse, thee Bible itself claims that all you need are the scriptures. It is sufficient for our salvation because it says it is.
Linus,

How on earth can you interpret those verses to say that all we need are the scriptures? That's not what they say at all. The fact that all scripture is inspired by God means just that: All scripture is inspired by God! It's profitable (i.e. worthwhile, useful, etc.) in teaching the gospel and preparing us to become spiritually mature. I sounds to me as if you're forming an opinion and then trying to make the Bible support that opinion instead of the other way around.

One more question... If the Bible alone is sufficient, why are there over 30,000 different Christian denominations in the world today -- the vast majority of them claiming that scripture alone is sufficient, but all of them interpreting them differently? Are you saying you don't see this as a problem?

Kathryn
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
AV1611 said:
You won't get that question answered, Linus, I guarantee it. And believe me, I'm speaking from experience here.

Most 'experts' here know what our Bible shouldn't say, but none of these 'experts' know what it should say.

I love it, though!
And just what should the Bible say, AV, since you obviously know something the rest of us don't?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Scott1 said:
AV1611 said:
You won't get that question answered, Linus, I guarantee it. And believe me, I'm speaking from experience here.
I'll be waiting for your apology.
You won't get an apology, Scott. I guarantee it. And believe me, I'm speaking from experience here.
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Katzpur said:
You won't get an apology, Scott. I guarantee it. And believe me, I'm speaking from experience here.
Hehe... I bet I will now... just to prove you wrong.... this AV fellow seems to have quite the fan club... theists and non-theists alike:biglaugh: .
 

Uncertaindrummer

Active Member
Linus said:
This thread has gone on for a while, and I haven't read most of it. So here is my 2 cents really quick, in response to the original question.

2 Timothy 3: 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work

According to this verse, thee Bible itself claims that all you need are the scriptures. It is sufficient for our salvation because it says it is.
Who? What? Where?

Tell me where the verse claims that the Bible is sufficient for our salvation? Show me where the word "Sufficient" even appears?

To James: have you checked your inbox in a while? Becuase it appears you asnwered my question without even knowing it... lol
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Katzpur said:
Linus,

How on earth can you interpret those verses to say that all we need are the scriptures? That's not what they say at all. The fact that all scripture is inspired by God means just that: All scripture is inspired by God! It's profitable (i.e. worthwhile, useful, etc.) in teaching the gospel and preparing us to become spiritually mature. I sounds to me as if you're forming an opinion and then trying to make the Bible support that opinion instead of the other way around.
How is Linus forming an opinion?

Here's what it says:
  • All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
  • All scripture is profitable for doctrine.
  • All scripture is profitable for reproof.
  • All scripture is profitable for correction.
  • All scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.
For what purpose?

THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT [i.e. "complete"] THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.

And you ask Linus if that's all we need???

What more do you want???

One more question... If the Bible alone is sufficient, why are there over 30,000 different Christian denominations in the world today -- the vast majority of them claiming that scripture alone is sufficient, but all of them interpreting them differently? Are you saying you don't see this as a problem?
That's an overstatement if ever I heard one. Name me just 5 Christan denominations in this world today that use Sola Scriptura, and show me how they interpret the same verse differently. (This oughta be good.)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Uncertaindrummer said:
Tell me where the verse claims that the Bible is sufficient for our salvation? Show me where the word "Sufficient" even appears?
2 Timothy 3:15 = AND THAT FROM A CHILD THOU HAST KNOWN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, WHICH ARE ABLE TO MAKE THEE WISE UNTO SALVATION THROUGH FAITH WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Scott1 said:
I'll be waiting for your apology.

2 Tim 2:24-25
A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness.
Scott, what's this all about? Apology for what?

And what's this 'slave of the Lord' junk?
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
Do you think she'll take coins, Scott? I'm happy to donate. *digs through pocketses*

I will refrain from commenting further, as I do not want to... erm... do what I really want to do.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Scott1 said:
OK Katzpur, you were right... I owe you 5 bucks.:D
Yeah ... that's real cute ... reminds me of some Roman soldiers at the foot of the Cross casting lots when Jesus was being crucified --- (Matthew 27:35; John 19:24).
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
Thank you, Scott, for being gentle unto all men. You and some others continually display the beauty of someone who follows their faith.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Scott1 said:
Hehe... I bet I will now... just to prove you wrong.... this AV fellow seems to have quite the fan club... theists and non-theists alike:biglaugh: .
I hate to interrupt your nitrous oxide party, but would you please tell me what that 'slave of the Lord' garbage was?

Does God have slaves now?
 

SoyLeche

meh...
AV1611 said:
How is Linus forming an opinion?

Here's what it says:


  • All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
  • All scripture is profitable for doctrine.
  • All scripture is profitable for reproof.
  • All scripture is profitable for correction.
  • All scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.
For what purpose?

THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT [i.e. "complete"] THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.

And you ask Linus if that's all we need???

What more do you want???
I think the problem comes from making the jump from "All scripture is from God" to "The Bible is the only book of scripture". You do realize that the verse quoted was written many, many years before the Bible was compiled, right?


(This has probably already been covered, I haven't followed the whole thread)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
SoyLeche said:
I think the problem comes from making the jump from "All scripture is from God" to "The Bible is the only book of scripture". You do realize that the verse quoted was written many, many years before the Bible was compiled, right?
Hi, Soy, nice to meet you.

Yes, those words were written circa 66 AD, and the autographing completed 30 years later. They have since been purified and preserved and transmitted to us as the King James AV1611 Bible - (Psalm 12:6-7). Thus we know today exactly what they were taught back then.
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
AV1611 said:
I hate to interrupt your nitrous oxide party, but would you please tell me what that 'slave of the Lord' garbage was?

Does God have slaves now?
'Servant' is another translation. In either case, the point of the psalm is the same.
 
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