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Christian: Salvation

Baerly

Active Member
You have a KEEN way of only showing a part of my qusestion. Let me try this again.

Writer wrote - God can, and duz, wash away sins both before, and after, and outside of, water. He's neither limited to only baptism, nor to the time of baptism.

Baerly wrote - Would you please show me in the bible where Jesus said those things, in those words?

If he did you should have NO PROBLEM finding those (quotes) of Jesus. On the other hand if Jesus did not (say those things),I would not be telling and teaching (those things) (1Tim.1:3) (Gal.1:6-9) (1Cor.1:10).

PLEASE answere my complete question without chopping my question up. Thanks
 

Baerly

Active Member
Calling on the name of the Lord: by Nathan Brewer / The Gospel Preceptor

The Gospel Peceptor is a good website to learn about this subject. Their also is a lesson by Landry brewer.

If you cannot find the one by Landry Brewer let me know and I will give it to you.

NOTICE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS:
Jesus said -Why call me Lord Lord and do not the things I say? (Luke 6:46).

Jesus said - Not everyone who saith unto me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven (Mt.7:21).

Even demons confess Jesus is Lord (Mt.8:29) (James 2:19). According to what WRITER preaches and teaches they (DEMONS) will be saved since they called on the name of the Lord? This cannot be true.

you can also go to missionprinting.us -------click on publications. Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
writer said:
<55 Are you telling me that the way the Lord accepts his people when their sins are forgiven is that he BLINDS THEM.>
What?
No. Rather, God's forgiveness IS His acceptance of the sinner

<That is what happen when Saul met the Lord.>
That's not what happened when writer met the Lord


Baerly wrote:. Please notice what the bible says:

8.And Saul rose up from the earth; and when his eyes were opened,HE SAW NO MAN: but they led him by the hand,and brought him to damascus. 9. And he was three days without SIGHT......(Acts 9:8,9). If what you say is correct The Lord punish Saul for being obedient. I think It was done to show him how blinded he actually was spiritually (2Cor.4:4). It was not till Ananius told Saul the plan of salvation that Saul could then see when he accepted the truth, that if he was baptized his sins would be washed away(Acts 22:16)

<The Lord did not tell Saul what to do to have his sins remitted either,>
That's becuz one can't do anything except receive it

<the Lord told Saul to go listen to a preacher.>
That's not mutually-exclusive with listening to the GodMan!

On the day of the first gospel sermon (on the day of Pentecost) in (Acts 2:37,38), The answere to the question What do we do about the SIN of KILLING JESUS? was met by the answere to the solution. That solution was not call on the Lord Verbally. The answere was Repent and be Baptized for the REMISSION of sins. Funny the apostles and WRITER do not agree. I will go with the apostles answere myself.

<Ananius told Saul the solution.>
The solution to what? Ananias never used the word, or the thought, "solution"

Common now,you know exactly what I am talking about.The complete solution to his sins being washed away was found within (Acts 22:16).The whole verse was the thought used with words about the solution.This was penned by an apostle who was being led by the Holy Spirit. I know it is truth,that is as long as a person does not TWIST IT AROUND TO SAY SOMETHING IT DOES NOT.

<He said BE BAPTIZED AND WASH YOUR SINS AWAY.>
Calling on the name of the Lord (Ac 22:16)

<when we obey the Lord we are calling on the Lord according to (Acts 22:16).>
That's fair (1 P 3:21). However calling strictly is "epikaleo." Like when you call audibly and someone hears your voice, as throughout Acts and the NT and O

My friend when you agree that water baptism saves,that means that they weeer not saved befroe they were baptized in water. That is why (1Peter 3:21) cans say baptism saves. If the bible says baptism saves who will stand opposed to God?

Calling stricltly is not what went on here. Saul acted upon the authority of the Lord. When one does this they are calling on the name of the Lord. Many times people will say I baptize you IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.This means they are doing this because they realize it all has been commanded by the lord (Mt.28:19).

Repentance is not found one time in the book of John. Does that mean that it is not required? Of course not. The word repentance is used where God wishes to use it. He only has to say it once for it to be so for those who are GOOD AND HONEST HEARTS.

<Here the words baptized and washing, together in the same sentence helps us to understand how (Titus 3:5) has a bearing on the plan of salvation.>
To the contrary: Titus 3:5's washing is strictly "of regeneration." Not baptism

My references of (John 3:3) & (1Peter 3:21) both agree with Titus as it being a water baptism.

<The word of God amazes me.>
Me too

<as man is baptized in the water, it is God who washes our sins away (Eph.1:7) (Rom.6:18).>
God can, and duz, wash away sins both before, and after, and outside of, water. He's neither limited to only baptism, nor to the time of baptism.
Additionally, Ephesians 1, and 1:7, and chapters 2 and 3 mention not baptism. Baptism's first and only mention in Ephesians is 4:5.
Romans also discusses and mentions not baptism until chapter 6. 'Long' after the matter of justification and forgiveness is discussed: Rom 3:21-5:11

<Can you see two different things happening there?>
Romans 6, baptism into His death, involves sanctification. Not justification as Paul uses that term. It involves freedom from the power of sin. Not forgiveness strictly, nor freedom from the guilt of sins. This can be seen in Paul's different uses of the plural "sins," and the singular "sin." Which switch takes place topically between 5:11 and 5:12.
In any case, to try to directly answer your question: there's only the matter of baptism and freedom from the power of sin, and enslavement to God, in Rom 6:18. Washing away of sins in the sense of forgiveness transpired way back in chapters 3 and 4.
Before baptism. And, in the absolute sense, for Paul: before his baptism

<This is all explained in (Col.2:12). When were 1. buried with him in baptism....we have faith that 2.God is washing our sins away like he promised to do in
(Acts 2:38) (Heb.8:12) (Acts 22:16).>
Just like washing from sins, and forgiveness for sins: faith too is not limited to the act or time of baptism. There is a Christian sect which i'll designate as CoC which, sadly, appears to involve itself, or want to involve others, in a kind of water-worship. Seeing baptism as the center and crucial thing of God's NT. Not Christ.

My friend Let me assure you The COC I attend does not do any such thing as water worship. Our foundations is Christ and his words (John 12:48) (1Cor.3:11). We are not a sect either. Baptism is the line of demarkation God has established between the wordl (LOST) and the saved (Acts 22:16) (Mk.16:16).

One positive example is Acts 13:39 where Paul told his audience: In this One everyone who believes is justified. This duz not contradict Ac 2:38. Ac 2:38 duz not contradict 13:39. Both r tru. Hebrews 8:12 also has zero to do with baptism. Either explicitly. Or implicitly

<1John 1:9). This verse has NOTHING to do with those outside of Christ (non-christians).>
To the contrary: sinners outside of Christ can confess their sins (and get inside of Christ) just the same way, and as easily, as one already in

Again please show me where the bible says that in those words. I am perfectly sure you are incorrect in your interpretation,but if you can show me in the bible in those words I will believe it and teach it.

<The book of (1John ) was wrote to Christians.>
The entire NT was written, firstly, to Christians. Another positive example is Acts 3:16 where, like Saul of Tarsus, "faith in His name--His name--has healed this man," before he was baptized

<To become a Christian one follows (Acts 8:5,12) & (Acts 8:35-39).>
And/or one invokes Jesus (Romans 10; Ac 2:21; Rv 22:14, 17). Or simply believes (Jn 3:16; 20:31; Ac 3:16; 10:44-47) into God's living, only begotten, Son. Who is a person. Not a religion nor CoC ritual or religion

<...second law of pardon>
And third, fourth, fifth, sixths...r the same, in essence and content, as first

When one does not have an answere I have found they will say anything.

<(Rom.6:17,18) tells us that when you OBEYED that form of DOCTRINE you were THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN .>
That form of teaching: is "whoever believes into Him has eternal life..."

That form of doctrine was earlier in Chapter 6 when they were baptized in water (Rom.6:3-6) (Rom.6:17,18). Please notice also that we are not WITH HIM (JESUS) till we are baptized in water (Rom.6:4).

<When did they obey ? It tells us in the first part of (ROM.6:3-6), when they were baptized in water.>
Both faith and baptism are obedience. The "obedience of faith" as Paul wrote in Romans 1:5. Faith necessarily precedes baptism. The obedience of faith both precedes, and then includes, the obedience of baptism. Unless one (and i hope Baerly duzn't) propounds forced conversions, or baptisms etc of babies, or on pain of torture, exile, or death. But then: none of those have any Spiritual value

So now you want to include baptism with faith when you have no other answere. It seems you are vacilating again.

<So when we are baptized in water were made free from SIN. That is what the bible says PLAINLY, NOT ME. Please believe it.>
Ac 9, for instance, indicates that Saul ceased his sin of persecuting saints once he met his Messiah. Saul didn't have to wait for that til his baptism.
Please read it. Thanks Baerly

The bible says SAULS sins was washed away AFTER HE WAS BAPTIZED IN WATER (Acts 22:16).Unless you take the word of a person who will twist the bible to say what he wants in love Baerly
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
writer said:
the only way to be in Him iz to be in Him, actually. For instance He prayed in Jn 17, and promised in Jn 14, that He and His Father's d be in us. Which was accomplished after, and even through, His resurrection. Jn 20:22. This is much more than a figurative, semantic, or some odd kind of oraganizational "in." This's in. As the Father's In His Son, and Son in His Father. Permanently.

In other words: God's plan and God's salvation's way much more, and always wuz, than a mere judicial, or legal, salvation from perdition.

That's why God became man. That man may "become God." In His life and in His nature. But not in His Godhead.

And He breathed into them and said to them Receive the Holy Spirit, Jn 20:22. This's eternal life and organic salvation. Not mere positional, or outward, salvation.

Take care

This is the point where we differ. It was accomplished by God becoming one of us, and living among us.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Baerly said:
Now we have got to specifics. That is very important to do.

What does it mean to be outside of Christ?

For as many of you as have been baptized INTO CHRIST have put on Christ
(Gal. 3:27).

Just as sure as a person knows when he puts on his coat,one can know when he puts on Christ.

When one is baptized INTO Christ ,he is also added to the church (Acts 2:47).


When one is baptized INTO Christ he is added to the church (1Cor.12:13),he also is washed of his sins according to (Acts 22:16).

In the Lords church this all happens simultaneously. Many teach that these things happen at different times,but that is not what the bible teaches.

For one to be outside of Christ it means a person has NOT been baptized in water,it means they have NOT put on Christ,it means they have NOT had their sins washed away,and it means the Lord has NOT added them to the church. Jesus will only save those who are a part of the body (church) (Eph.5:23) (Col.1:18). I sure want to be a part of that church.

The bible defines what baptism is in (Acts 8:38,39),THEY went down INTO the water.... THEY were come up out of the water. The eunich had to understand what he was doing according to (Acts 8:30). It must be a burial (Rom.6:4). The bible says were are WITH JESUS only when we have been baptized in water (Rom.6:4).

I think that answeres who is outside of Christ and who is inside of Christ
(or the church) (Eph.1:22,23) by the bible standard (1Peter 4:11). in love Baerly

You raise a good point here. Since the Church is conceptualized as the Body of Christ, when one is baptized into the Church, one is ,therfore, necessarily baptized into Christ.

However, your vision becomes myopic here. God reconciled the world to God's self in the Christ-event. Christianity does not subscribe to country-club exclusionary tactics. Christianity is inclusive of all humanity.
 

writer

Active Member
66 This is the point where we differ. It was accomplished by God becoming one of us, and living among us.
It, however, was not completed by that.
As Christians named Paul, John, and Nee wrote. God's goal's to live IN folks (Col 1:27; Eph 3:16-17)

65 It seems you are vacilating again.
It seems, dear Baerly, no offence: u've little to no idea what you're writing about.
Thanks
 

Baerly

Active Member
sojourner said:
You raise a good point here. Since the Church is conceptualized as the Body of Christ, when one is baptized into the Church, one is ,therfore, necessarily baptized into Christ.

However, your vision becomes myopic here. God reconciled the world to God's self in the Christ-event. Christianity does not subscribe to country-club exclusionary tactics. Christianity is inclusive of all humanity.

My friend it is not I that has a problem understanding the scriptures found in the bible. Please notice what (Eph.2:16) teaches us. Jesus has reconciled BOTH (Jew & Gentile) unto God IN ONE BODY (the church). We also learn that the church is the body in (Col.1:18) & (Eph.1:22,23). We also learn that when were baptized in water were are baptized into that one body or church in (1Cor.12:13).Please notice Jesus will only save that one church he died to purchase according to (Eph.5:23) & (Acts 20:28).I want to be part of that one church Jesus will save (Eph.5:23).

(Eph.5:23-32) teaches us Jesus has only one church and he is going to only save It,A Glorious Church,Her,The Church. This scripture teaches he will save only one church not many. In love Baerly
 

writer

Active Member
69 Yea I agree Writer, (Acts 22:16) is really hard to understand:
Then, evidently, you're agreein w/ yourself, Baerly. Cuz i never said Ac 22:16's hard to understand

1. Arise 2.Be Baptized 3.Wash Away Your Sins 4.Calling on the name of the Lord
Saul of Tarsus needed not to wait for baptism to call on Jesus (and be saved that way, Rm 10:13; Joel 2:32). As he wrote (Rm 10:13). How own experience. And as he went, he drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. And he fell on the ground and heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? And he said to Him, Who are you, LORD? (Ac 9:5).
Saul of Tarsus needed to wait for baptism to be baptised.
Saul of Tarsus needed not to wait to wash away his sins through faith in the blood of the Lamb. As he wrote. Since he met the Lamb. Personally. Directly. Without intermediary. Whom God set forth as a propitiation place through faith in His blood (Rm 3:26). Paul wrote Romans. Romans's written by Paul. Romans 3:26 is the truth. Romans 3:26 and Acts 22:16 are not in conflict. They don't contradict. They're both true. Romans 3:26 is not dependent on Acts 22:16. Romans 3:26 (and 10:13; etc) isn't dependent on baptism. This seems to be, if i may, the great and ugly heresy toward which Ms Baerly, and her group's, teaching tends. If they're not already there. Sorry to say. And i am sorry to say. Said heresy being to claim that God's forgiveness, or Christ's blood and redemption, are only first experienced in physical water or baptism

Who is it again That does not know what they are talking about? (2Peter 3:16)
U seem to know some, or a weeny bit, of what you're talking about, dear Ms B.
But not in the above paragraph's regard. Thanx

For all those who think sins are
incapable of being washed away BEFORE baptism please check out: God's Bible.
Gracias.
Yours,
-me
 

Baerly

Active Member
My friend, what you teach opposes what is found in (2Cor.11:3).

The bible says some would be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST.

This perverted gospel you teach opposes our Lords teaching on many levels (Gal.1:6-9) (1Tim.1:3). in love Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
A child can understand the simple gospel of our Lord (2Tim3:14-17).

From a child thou hast known the Holy Scritpures,which are able to make thee wise unto salvation....

I find it hard to believe that a child could understand much less believe what you teach. Many very smart individuals on this site cannot understand what you teach and claim to be the gospel.This is only one of many reasons the gospel you teach is not that which our Lord taught (1Cor.1:10) (1Tim.1:3) (Phil.3:16).

But when one rejects the truth,they must jump through hoops to make their theories seem like truth.

My friend, do not think I am just throwing out something to make you upset,because I am not. I am serious,of all the people I have studied with, you seem to be teaching the most complicated of all gospels. May I ask what denomination you attend? in love Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
writer said:
69 Yea I agree Writer, (Acts 22:16) is really hard to understand:
Then, evidently, you're agreein w/ yourself, Baerly. Cuz i never said Ac 22:16's hard to understand

1. Arise 2.Be Baptized 3.Wash Away Your Sins 4.Calling on the name of the Lord
Saul of Tarsus needed not to wait for baptism to call on Jesus (and be saved that way, Rm 10:13; Joel 2:32). As he wrote (Rm 10:13). How own experience. And as he went, he drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. And he fell on the ground and heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? And he said to Him, Who are you, LORD? (Ac 9:5).
Saul of Tarsus needed to wait for baptism to be baptised.
Saul of Tarsus needed not to wait to wash away his sins through faith in the blood of the Lamb. As he wrote. Since he met the Lamb. Personally. Directly. Without intermediary. Whom God set forth as a propitiation place through faith in His blood (Rm 3:26). Paul wrote Romans. Romans's written by Paul. Romans 3:26 is the truth. Romans 3:26 and Acts 22:16 are not in conflict. They don't contradict. They're both true. Romans 3:26 is not dependent on Acts 22:16. Romans 3:26 (and 10:13; etc) isn't dependent on baptism. This seems to be, if i may, the great and ugly heresy toward which Ms Baerly, and her group's, teaching tends. If they're not already there. Sorry to say. And i am sorry to say. Said heresy being to claim that God's forgiveness, or Christ's blood and redemption, are only first experienced in physical water or baptism

Who is it again That does not know what they are talking about? (2Peter 3:16)
U seem to know some, or a weeny bit, of what you're talking about, dear Ms B.
But not in the above paragraph's regard. Thanx

For all those who think sins are
incapable of being washed away BEFORE baptism please check out: God's Bible.
Gracias.
Yours,
-me

OK, Let me count again to see if I messed up.(Acts 22:16) says:

1. Arise

2.Be Baptized

3. Wash Away Your Sins

4. Calling On The Lord

Nope, #3. Washing Away Sins Still Comes-- AFTER --#2.Be BAPTIZED.

I will study it again to make sure though. In love Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
If that is not enough (Mark 16:16) says:

Believeth + Baptism = Saved

Here in (Mark 16:16) we find the bible puts Baptism between Belief and Salvation.

Writer, Which of the below is true?

1. Believeth = Saved + Be Baptized Later on - But not for the remission of Sins.

2. Believeth + Baptism = Saved (Mk 16:16)

The question is,which does (Mark 16:16) teach? -- #1.--- 0r --- #2.

Please take out your bible and see if it is #1. -- or --#2.

I would not want to be teaching something the bible does not teach,How about you?
in love Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
(Acts 3:19) Harmonizes with (Acts 2:38)

Repent + Be Baptized = for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38)

Repent + Be Converted = sins blotted out (Acts 3:19)

Here we see that the word of God uses the words Baptized and Converted interchangeably.

Not only that but blotting out sins and remission of sins both came AFTER BAPTISM.

The bible is SIMPLE to understand if you keep it in context (2Cor.11:3) (2Tim.3:14-17).

---in love Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
My friend Writer, That is not what my SECT teaches.

It is what the BIBLE teaches.

I think anyone who has a good and honest heart can and will see that (Luke 8:15).

in love Baerly
 

writer

Active Member
72 My friend, what you teach opposes what is found in (2Cor.11:3).
Dear Baerly: what u teach in this little regard opposes what's found in 2 Cor 11:3 as well as the rest of the NT and O

SIMPLICITY
John 3:15's not simple?

perverted
"That everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life" is perverted?

73 jump through hoops
Faith = hoops ?
 

Baerly

Active Member
Writer,AS far as I know there is not a verse in the New Testament which says that a person believes into Christ. If I see one I will teach others about it.

The only verse I know that tells us HOW TO GET INTO CHRIST is (Gal.3:27)
It says we are BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST. That harmonizes with all these verses
(Acts 2:38 ; 8:35-39 ; 19:1-4 ; 22:16). in love Baerly
 
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