85 Of coarse Jesus is truly, sacramentally, corporally, and mystically present(John 6: 50-58) in the eucharist. Amen!
Jn 6 is before He established His Table (Mt 26). It's not about His Table. It's about Him. His Table's about Him
The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is something that the early Christians unanimously agreed on. It wasn't until 1500 years later that the protestants would alter this...
Christ's really present with His believers because He's risen (Mt 28:20). Not because He turns something nonhuman into Him.
The early Christians in the NT including the apostles, and Christ Himself, did not agree with any "false presence" of Christ in His Supper.
For instance, Augustine of Hippo, around 400, interpreted properly where he said in his On The Psalms XCIX section 8, touching on John 6:
"He instructed them, and says to them, 'It is the Spirit that gives life, but the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you, they are spirit, and they are life.' Understand spiritually what I have said; you are not to eat this body which you see; nor to drink that blood which they who will crucify Me shall pour forth. I have commended to you a certain mystery; spiritually understood, it will give life. Although it is needful that this be visibly celebrated, yet it must be spiritually understood."
...biblical and historical doctrine and make it a symbolic or merely spiritual presence.
"The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit," wrote the apostle Paul (1 Cor 15:45). Christ, in resurrection, not only rose bodily, but also became a life-giving Spirit, His humanity incorporated into the Holy Spirit (Jn 7:37-39; 14:16-18; 20:22; 1 Cor 15:45; 2 Cor 3:17), becoming "the Spirit" in common NT parlance (cf Rev 22:17; Gal 3:2).
He (the Spirit) isn't a "mere" thing. He's the Triune God, processed through incarnation, human life, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, and out-pouring, to be the regeneration and life of any and all who receive Him by believing into His name.
Jesus Christ.
Thus comprising them to build them up into Him, His Body, to be our life, enjoyment, and life-supply for eternity and now, to be God's wife as the New Jerusalem. As the early Athanasius and others said succintly: "God became man to make man God."
In God's life and in His nature. But not in His Godhead
...this dogma of faith.
Neither to believe nor to disbelieve that bread and wine at the Lord's Supper are symbolic are "dogma of faith" per the NT
65 ...because it has been the foundation of Christianity (along with the Bishop) for about 2,000 years.
Christianty, or that Christianity of which the gentleman speaks, are one thing.
Christ is another
60 Matt. 26:26; Mark. 14:22; Luke 22:19-20 - the Greek phrase is "Touto estin to soma mou." This phraseology means "this is actually" or "this is really" my body and blood. 1 Cor. 11:24 - the same translation is used by Paul - "touto mou estin to soma." The statement is "this is really" my body and blood.
To the contrary, dear Scott: "Touto" = "this"; "estin" = "is"; "to" = "the"; "soma" = "body"; "mou" = "mine"
Nowhere in Scripture does God ever declare something without making it so.
To the contrary, dear sir: He didn't say "this becomes My body"
Protestants (this means you true blood)...
To the contrary, one need not be "Protestant," nor take any such label, to be non-Roman Catholic. Just as believers martyred by Catholicism before 1500 needed no such label to either be Christian or non-RC
...must argue that Jesus was really saying "this represents (not is) my body and blood."
To the contrary, as post 56 tries to point out: metaphors both exist, use the word "is" or similar form of the verb, and don't use comparison words such as "represents" "symbolizes" "like" "as" to make their comparison. Both in English, Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, and probably every other language that's existed or exists in the world
However, Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, had over 30 words for "represent," but Jesus did not use any of them. He used the Aramaic word for "estin" which means "is."
Like He did when He said "I'm the light" (Jn 8:12), "I'm the gate" (10:9); or as Paul, the apostle, did when he wrote "you may be a new lump" (1 Cor 5:7)
1 Cor. 10:16 - Paul asks the question, "the cup of blessing and the bread of which we partake, is it not an actual participation in Christ's body and blood?"
To the contrary: Paul does not insert any adjective before his word "participation" in 10:16.
Is Paul really asking because He, the divinely inspired writer, does not understand?
He's asking rhetorically and negatively: "is it NOT the fellowship of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, isn't it the fellowship of the body of Christ?"
No, of course not. Paul's questions are obviously rhetorical. This IS the actual body and blood.
To the contrary: Paul duzn't utilize any extra word before "koinonia" (participation), an adjective. Nor duz he write "actual."
Further, the Greek word "koinonia" describes an actual, not symbolic participation in the body and blood.
Actual participation in Christ's blood and body is spiritual. Since, as the same Paul wrote in the same book: "the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit." And his same Lord in the same Bible said: "It's the Spirit who gives life. The flesh [even His flesh in the way of physical eating] profits nothing" (Jn 6:63; 1 Cor 15:45).
As Augustine of Hippo (around 400) said in his Tractate 26 (XXVI), section 19, on John 6:
"we are made better by participation of the Son, through the unity of His body and blood, which thing that eating and drinking signifies."
And in section 12:
"'This then is the bread which comes down from heaven, that if any man eat thereof, he shall not die.' But this is what belongs to the virtue of the sacrament, not to the visible sacrament; he who eats within, not without; who eats in his heart, not who presses with his teeth."
Thanx