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Christian Nation reaches the US Congress

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Pah, Aug 26, 2006.

  1. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Rep. Harris Condemns Separation of Church, State

    By Jim Stratton
    Orlando Sentinel
    Saturday, August 26, 2006; Page A09
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082501640.html

    Discuss - in favor or opposed?

    Sounds to me that she is calling for an overthrow of the "nation of secular laws" in the name of God
     
  2. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Yes, it does sound like that.

    Did she flunk Civics 101 in middle school?

    I'd heard a while back that her campaign was having some difficulty. I wonder if the stridency is related to that, and trying to whip up the voters on the extreme end of things.

    Given some of the comments by residents in the area, I'm not sure that's going to work so well.

    That's a good sign, at least.

    On the subject of ethics, I can't consider willingly and knowingly disenfranchising tens of thousands of voters to be exactly... ethical.
     
  3. Elvendon

    Elvendon Mystical Tea Dispenser

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    Didn't Jesus say that Christians should not "be of this world"?
     
  4. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Perhaps she was dyslexic and thought Jesus said to render unto God what is Ceasar's?
     
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  5. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

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    One of the many reasons why I dislike arguments along the lines of "the church and state should remain seperate because it is in the constitution" is because it allows such irrelevant arguments as "that the separation of church and state is a "lie we have been told""

    The seperation of church and state is not a lie because it isn't trying to relate a truth. It is irrelevant whether anybody in America's history sat down and wrote "the church and state should be kept seperate". The concept is a good one on its own and it would be a total fallacy to believe that appeals to authority can improve on that (or the converse that destroying that authority can destroy the concept).
     
  6. drekmed

    drekmed Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Harris

    she would not make a good senator. just take a look at some of the things she has done while in previous offices.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_United_States_Senate_election,_2006 (for my fellow floridians interested in the senate race)

    I completely disagree with her views on pretty much every subject. She is a political pawn for the Religious Right's agenda to run this country into the ground. Her continued presence in public office would be very detrimental to the country.

    As for her views on the seperation of church and state, doesn't history speak for itself? Theocracy would be very bad for the US. It would almost definately lead to a second civil war, especially if radical christians are the ones who lead and make laws, and they eliminate many of the rights that we now hold dear.
     
  7. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    This is the same woman who helped put George Bush in office in 2000 (along with the Supreme Court).

    And people laughed when Hillary refered to a vast right-wing conspiracy.

    God, save us from your "true-believers."
     
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  8. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    She took Machiavelli 402, Biblical Support for Tyrants
     
  9. Elvendon

    Elvendon Mystical Tea Dispenser

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    hehe ;)
     
  10. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    And I thought we had problems in the UK.....
     
  11. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    I can't believe her campaign manager lets her talk to the press.
     
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  12. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    As far as I can tell we've got problems everywhere.

    Funny how only a few years ago it seemed like peace was breaking out all over the place. The Berlin wall had come down. The Soviet Union had dissolved into presumably democratic states. Peace was negotiated in Northern Ireland... My boss got to visit Bethlehem and Jerusalem for a conference and I remember thinking, "Aw... I want to go too. Well, that's ok. I'll go later." never thinking that violence would erupt again as it has.

    In retrospect that was an illusion - not peace but an illusion of peace. The discontents that led up to 9/11 and our current situation were already long stewing. And some of the events that we hailed as peaceful victories led directly to the conflicts we face now... it seems like we got complacent, fell asleep and woke up with a bunch of crazy people running the world. Everyone... crazy people speaking for Muslims, crazy people speaking for the Jews, crazy people speaking for Christians, crazy people speaking for Hindus... insane people who think they can "anihilate their enemies" via force.

    What the heck is Katherine Harris doing in the House of Representatives??! That ***** went through the FL voter lists and systematically disqualified people of color from voting, knowing that they would most likely vote Dem. How could FLoridians elect her after what she did??! The world is insane.
     
  13. MaddLlama

    MaddLlama Obstructor of justice

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    Just because some loony politicians believe that Jesus is actually our president doesn't mean that there actually WILL be a Christian fundamentalist overthrow of government.
    Remember, we are responsible for voting members of Congress and the Senate into or out of office. And, I would also be surprised if her campaign had any support from her fellowpoliticians other than a few other wayward politicians who never took government/civics in high school.

    I hate to say it, but the fact that people like this have any support at all to me is indicative of the education level of some people and areas.
     
  14. angellous_evangellous

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    I'm going to Starbucks and pretend like I was never here.
     
  15. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    Yeah, that's what I used to think, because people like Katherine Harris have been talking like that for a couple of decades now, and I used to just dismiss them as loony.

    And then George Bush became president, with the help of Katherine Harris and a Supreme Court that had three outspoken conservative Christians on it and now four. Under Rehnquist the Court has slowly chipped away at separation of church and state, with more govt money than ever going to faith-based schools and other programs. Roe v. Wade is under attack, and not in just a direct way: While we're all looking at Roe itself, meanwhile California recently recognized the death of an unborn foetus as "murder," thereby giving it the right to live. No federal money goes to clinics, so that even if abortion is technically still legal, it is harder and harder to obtain. Stem-cell research is strangled. Across the country, fundamentalist Christians have gotten elected to school boards and then insisted that creationism be taught in schools. Not to mention our president saying in nationally televised speaches that God made America great so that it could (and has the duty to) spread democracy throughout the world. (He uses the word "democracy" but if you put God in the context, what does that sound like?) We have high ranking generals saying that we will win because our God is bigger than their God. And again, that's just the obvious stuff. Constantly, members of the Bush cabinet use words coded for the Christian right. These are biblical words and phrases that if a non-Christian heard it they would think that it was just a novel way of putting things, but a Christian would understand immediately that there's a subtext. At the very least it says, "I am one of you."

    How much more will it take before we wake up and realize that they have taken over, or are very near to doing so. We keep dismissing these people as "looney" etc and yet they are in high ranking positions all across govt, and we allowed them to get there because of our dismissive attitude. They are extremists but they are not stupid.

    Exactly. So what does that tell you?
     
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  16. angellous_evangellous

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  17. MaddLlama

    MaddLlama Obstructor of justice

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    That we are a nation full of uneducated people. And uneducated is not the same thing as stupid.

    Problem is, that the more rampant this religious attitude becomes, the harder it is to get these people out of office. The only way I can see this as a possibility is to remove religion from politics completely. And, while I would be all in favor of that, it would never happen.

    Congressmen/women are there to represent the people. If the people by and large are uneducated and more concerned with religion than civics, then it should be no surprise that this is the political attitude.
     
  18. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    Why do you think that if people were more "educated" that they would no longer be interested in melding church with state? As far as I'm concerned, saying that people are "uneducated" is just a pc way of saying that they're stupid. The assumption still is, if you knew as much as I do, you'd agree with me. What I see between the religious right and the secular left is a difference in values, not education. People like Anton Scalia and Karl Rove are not "uneducated," no matter how much the left would like to believe that.
     
  19. Faint

    Faint Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry...if things continue in this direction, our problems will become your problems.

    At least it sounds like Harris is on her way out:
     
  20. lunamoth

    lunamoth Will to love

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    I think it is more a matter of fear and that fear could indeed come from ignorance. The question is what kind of information is needed to help people let go of fear, especially in a world where terrorism is a steadily growing trend?

    I'm shocked that this woman has as much influence as she appears to have (and yes, I am ignorant myself of much that goes on in politics). But, with school districts deciding to curtail the teaching of evolution in our public schools I'm starting to think that anything could happen. :(

    I think the key lies in the drastic polarization of viewpoints and the increasingly adversarial roles being assumed by people who identify with the 'right' and those who identify with the 'left.' This is horribly fed by the media. Actually, the British have been onto something for a long time I think. Good manners can go a very long way in promoting cvilization. Bill O'Reilly (among many others) should take a cue.

    2c,
    lunamoth
     
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