34 Romans 3.23 applies to all human beings without exception? Does it apply to Jesus?
After Romans 1:18-3:20 on mankind's condemnation: 3:21-25 the beginning of Paul's section on justification speaks of righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus...the redemption which's in Christ Jesus. Since He's the solution, do u think 3:23 excepts Him?
Given that my post 33, para 3 pointed out Jesus' sinlessness per the NT; do u think i and the NT didn't except Him?
Does it apply to infants?
Not the infant Jesus
36 before they are born.
38 at any point of someone's existance.
By 'born' duz the gentleman mean 'conceived'? Or is the kind gentleman's idea that Mary was sinless in the womb, but then not when she came out?
36 before they are born.
40 we believe she responded and accepted God's Grace in a very special way.
Before she was born? Before she existed?
42 Stop trying to read into everything.
To the contrary: i dint read into Anythin. I simply wrote that Mary's not the source of divinity. Pleze don't read into that.
Thanks
Romans 3 shows that this is a generalized statement and is not referring to every single person. It is equilivant to saying: I went to a party and everyone in the world was there.
To the contrary: Everyone but Christ sinned and haz sin
Babies are human, and we know that they cannot sin.
Whether we can't sin or not as babies: we Hav sin. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me, wrote David in Psalm 51
So there are exceptions,
To the contrary: the only exception's the sinless man who is God also
And Mary since she is scripturally and historically believed to be the Ark of the New covenant
As member of God's house, Mary's part of God's house, His building
and the New Eve is definitely a exception.
To the contrary: Eve sinned and had sin. Mary too (Rm 3:23)
The title immaculate conception suggest that a person is made free of sin at there conception.
If that's its meaning: then there's no such thing. Nor would there be. Adam and Eve were created, not conceived, sinless. The Son of God wasn't made sinless. He never was sin, intrinsically
Jesus was always sinless even before his conception because he is God.
Amen
the sinlessness of mary isnt a fairy tale.
To the contrary: it's false
The Fathers of the church explicitly taught her sinlessness.
so-called 'Fathers' r, and were, xplicitly wrong in that regard. Except Augustine, w/ others, who explicitly acknowledged her sin
Sacred Scripture implies it.
To the contrary: Romans 3:23 denies it
MIracles, even today, such as Lourdes confirm it.
Laying aside debating what u call 'miracles,' Elijah, Elisha, and Peter performed miracles and they were born sinners
you have limited the word of God to mere scripture alone so you cannot look to the tradition of the fathers or the miracles.
Where there's conflict or contradiction between tradition and miracles; and God's Scripture: you're correct if you're accusing me of siding w/ Scripture. If you're putting other things or writings on the same plane as Scripture as a teaching authority: then you're doing the same thing as Mormons with their 'other testament of Jesus Christ'
Mary is seen in scripture as the Ark of the new covenant as the Gospel writer Luke Shows. Why? She is a typological fulfillment of the ark.
The tabernacle typifies Christ (Jn 1:14). The ark within the tabernacle typifies God, who's within Christ (Eph 4:32). And who, in Christ, comes to dwell in His believers' regenerated spirit (Heb 10:22; 2 Tim 4:22; 1 Cor 6:17)
If jesus is the fulfillment of the covenant then Mary who carried this new covenant in her womb would be seen as the new Ark. Simple.
Simply temporary. Mary's no longer physically pregnant with Jesus her firstborn. Mary's regenerated human spirit, containing God and Christ's Spirit, carries Jesus, as do the spirits of all His regenerated believers.....eternally
Revelation 11:19-12:1. John clearly shows us in 11:19 that the ark of Gods covenant would be seen in heaven...and who is this covenant?
The same One who is the temple (21:22). God
Immedialty after saying this we see its the Women who gives birth to Jesus, hence it is Mary.
To the contrary: Rv 12:1-17's woman is God's people. Just as in 19:7-8; 21:2. Which is the point of the entire Bible (cf Isa 54:5; Ephesians 5:32; 2 Cor 11:2). Mary didn't flee into the wilderness for 1,260 days (3 1/2 years) after her firstborn ascended (Rv 12:6). Christ Jesus didn't ascend as a baby after He was born (12:5). The man-child in 12:5 is not Christ Jesus directly. Hence that woman isn't Mary individually. That woman isn't Mary, singly. Hence her child is not Jesus, individually. Instead, the man-child, like the woman, is a corporate entity. Here: the stronger part of Christ's mystical Body. Hence: 'man-child.' Taken while the woman, the weaker part (no offence here), is left on the earth. This is seen in 2:25-27 of the same book
you dont have the complete word of God in tradition
To the contrary: what contradicts Scripture's not word o' God (cf John 10:35)
you refuse to study the early christian Church and the fathers of the first 6 hundred years.
To the contrary: i've studied, and study, them much. That's how i know when they're right; and when they're in error, and who's more accurate when they disagree. In addition, the 1st 600 years of church history, just like the 1,400 since then, is visible not only in history itself, but also prophetically in the Bible including John's Revelation
Mary is the queen of heaven.
Mary, like all deceased believers except evidently Moses, is in the pleasant part of Hades under the earth, awaiting her Lord's return, and resurrection
All Davidic Kings had Queen Mothers. Mary is his mother.
Mary's not in heaven. Nor will she and all other believers be long in heaven; except temporarily: 3 1/2 years or less; after their assumption (rapture) at the end of this age. Christ and His believers come to earth (Rv 17:14; 19:11-14). Take care