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Christian & Jews: the modern state of Israel, what do you think?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Xavier Graham, Jun 23, 2022 at 3:03 PM.

  1. Xavier Graham

    Xavier Graham Your local anarchist. God is Love is Love is Love

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    Growing up in a Protestant environment, I always saw lots of support for the modern nation state of Israel that was formed in 1948. My family and churches saw this a fulfillment of prophecy. They also view the modern nation state of Israel to be one and the same as the Israel of the Bible! Plenty of “I support Israel” bumper stickers in the church parking lot. Christians I was taught by viewed it sinful to go against the modern nation state of Israel, as it was God’s country.
    Christians and Jews, do you believe that the modern nation state of Israel is God’s special country?
    I disagreed when I was a Christian and didn’t view the modern nation state of Israel to be the same one of the Bible. Just because you wave the Star of David and name the government “Israel” doesn’t make you the Israel of the Bible.
    What do you think?
     
  2. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    The Israel of the bible was a theocratic monarchy centered around the temple. There is no theocratic monarchy and there is no temple, so this isn't the Israel of the bible. But the Israel of the bible was also the land of the Jews with certain borders, and this is the land of the Jews which shares similar borders, so it has a serious connection to its history as the Israel of the bible.
     
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  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    It is a state which protects irreplaceable archeological artifacts in that area of the world. If Israel goes down artifacts get damaged, and everyone gets hurt. It could cause History to cycle again. That's what I mean by irreplaceable artifacts. Just as the Nag Hammadi and Dead Sea artifacts should have been protected and preserved, most of the land there ought to be carefully preserved. Its a bridge connecting us to the true history of the world which is still being uncovered in our own lifetimes. It is the kind of valuable place that is worth fighting for.
     
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  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    You mean, as opposed to Egypt, Greece, Mesopotamia, Persia, Turkey, ... ?
     
  5. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    We'd have to figure out a way to cover Israel in a giant time-travel bubble and then we'd all be transported to biblical times and then we'd be the Israel of the Bible.
    No, Israel today is not the Israel of the Bible. And in any case, religious Jews do not envision a return to the Israel of the Bible. They envision something more, because Israel of the Bible had its own flaws.
     
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  6. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    As does the modern state of Israel.

    As far as Israel as a nation goes, it's original idealism has vanished and the treatment of Arabs is worthy of severe rebuke. Since my family (not me) were Conservative not Orthodox, I have never been a fan of the Orthodox stranglehold on various Israeli religious issues such as who is a Jew and marriage.
     
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  7. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    No, we wouldn’t because we would be bringing all the insights we have been blessed with from the giants of our tradition who post date biblical times… even though our lists of who those giants are might not be total agreement. We’d probably would also be bringing loads of antiperspirants, but that’s another story.
     
    #7 RabbiO, Jun 23, 2022 at 4:29 PM
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022 at 4:35 PM
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  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    I don't mean to exclude them. Israel protects antiquities in its territory.
     
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  9. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    I think it is interesting, in that it seems to want to be a religion that is associated with specific areas of geography. That has become more rare. That is the way that traditional religion was: the idea of the 'holy site' or area seems like it used to at least be endemic to a certain area. The parthenon or stone henge, any temple in any specific area, or fantastic natural formation etc., marked out something important about the spirituality or religion of an area.
     
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  10. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    The Jews were in Israel from about 1400BC to 70AD and the monarchy was from about 1000BC to 600BC so I don't see the monarchy as necessarily a main part of the description of the Biblical Israel.
    It is a similar thing with the Temple.
    But of course the modern Israel is situated in the same place and is a Jewish state and God said that He would bring the Jews back to Israel even though at this stage not all the Jews have returned.
     
  11. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    God's country but Jews are going to hell. Hmm. I agree with you.
     
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  12. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    I don't know if the Christian infatuation with Israel is because of history, I think it's because of how it factors into the "end times."
     
  13. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    I was actually thinking about modern plumbing. :D
     
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