Joannicius
Active Member
What do you thinK?
And why?
And why?
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Joannicius said:What do you thinK?
And why?
Joannicius said:It does not say that these are children of Mary and the Greek used here can easily be step-brothers, step-sisters, even cousins.
Also why should the Church of today believe in contridiction with the whole of Christendom
for the first 1600 or so years?
NetDoc said:So, why does Mary have to be celibate?
NetDoc said:She doesn't. It's a myth and I trust the NT and not those who would re-write it to suit their purposes.
This is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
Does that not imply that they had sex afterwards?All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23 "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, God with us). 24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.
chris9178 said:So Joseph marries Mary, but never sleeps with her?
Ok......
Seriously now. I can understand the arguement about her having no more children (the "brothers" of Christ actually being step-brothers), but for her to have never had sex with her husband????? And comparing her to the Ark of the Covenant????
Matthew 1:All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23 "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, God with us). 24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.
Does that not imply that they had sex afterwards?
Is that some sort of error in translation? Does Greek have a different use of the "until" than we do?
I'd like somebody to clarify that.
Thinking about this reminds me of a few years ago when President Clinton was testifying before Congress and said something to the effect of "well that depends on the definition of "is"". That was rather comical, right? Well, it seems like Christians aer doing it every single day with the Bible.
Chris9178 said:One more note. This is the second time I've had to type out this post, and this happens quite often. I press the "Post Quick Reply" button and it sends me to a screen that tells me to log in (which I had already done). I re-log in and everything I typed is lost! It's maddening, and it happens to me almost every day!!! Does this happen to others as well?????? It's discouraged many, many replies that I've lost and didn't feel like re-typing. Argh.
Actually Jesus was with us until the end of the "age". We are under a new age and a new covenant. During this age we have his spirit indwelling in his children!Actually, Greek word eos does have a different sense of "until." Here's my favorite example. The Greek word for "until" used here was also used by Jesus when He says, "Behold I am with you until the End of the Age." There is a change in condition there, but He will still be with His people. It didn't change.
NetDoc said:I would like to see your proof for #1 and would assure that #2 is not obvious.
Again, there is so much emphasis on the PHYSICAL in this, when it's the SPIRITUAL aspect that is important.
There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that this has any bearing on your salvation. God created sex as a wonderful experience. Why would he deny Mary that wonderful experience?
NetDoc said:Actually Jesus was with us until the end of the "age". We are under a new age and a new covenant. During this age we have his spirit indwelling in his children!
The emphasis is on combining the physical with the spiritual which is what our Lord did by becoming human.Again, there is so much emphasis on the PHYSICAL in this, when it's the SPIRITUAL aspect that is important.
There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that this has any bearing on your salvation. God created sex as a wonderful experience. Why would he deny Mary that wonderful experience?
Well it sounds like we have the same meaning to the words to me. "Until" can be used both ways, but in one way it implies change afterwards, and in the other way it doesn't.Actually, Greek word eos does have a different sense of "until." Here's my favorite example. The Greek word for "until" used here was also used by Jesus when He says, "Behold I am with you until the End of the Age." There is a change in condition there, but He will still be with His people. It didn't change.
Well, I use mostly computers from the labs at the university when I'm posting, so I rarely have the same one. And there's no way I'd throw one of their monitors out the window! I'd hate to see that charge on my fee bill!!!I haven't had to log in once since I joined . I wonder what's happening to you here. I can see how that would be frustrating, though. Just a word of caution, don't toss the monitor out the window. It won't help .
chris9178 said:Well it sounds like we have the same meaning to the words to me. "Until" can be used both ways, but in one way it implies change afterwards, and in the other way it doesn't.
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Welcome to biblical Greek. Most NT Greek grammars define the rules (and dictionaries define words) along theological lines instead of by reason. This is why you should learn Attic or classical Greek before picking up a NT Greek grammar. It is much more difficult going the other way.
angellous_evangellous said:Not as if Eusebius is the final authority on the issue, but I ran across this a few nights ago. If you believe apostolic succession, I am not sure where else you draw your history from. If not Eusebius, then I would like to know.