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"Christian God" one of many?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Draka, Jun 29, 2005.

  1. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    I had some revelations come to me last night that I will not go into how, but nonetheless they made me think. I know this is probably going to set some people here off, but I have to know if I am crazy:areyoucra .

    I recall a thread on here that got into the whole aspect of Jesus being the "son of God" or the Lord himself. Can it not be possible that he was both? Jesus could have been biologically Mary and Joseph's child with the infused soul directly from the essence of a god. This would make him both the "son of God" and quite literally, Lord himself due to being made of the essence of a god.

    Also, since there are definite illusions to "other gods" in the bible, is it not entirely possible that that god eluded to in the bible IS truly one of many that so wanted his own following that he involved himself so much in the life of mortals to make himself known, worshipped, loved, and obeyed? So much so that he infused a part of himself in a mortal man?

    Again, just the ramblings of my mind that came about from odd revelations. But they are points, at least I think, are points to think on and consider.
     
  2. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    I don't think you're crazy, just a deep thinker.

    You're not the only one to have thought such things Draka. I feel preachy to keep referring to Gnosticism, but its what i know. The Gnostics saw Christ as the logos of God inhabiting what they called "the man Jesus", and that when Jesus died the logos had already left his body, so that in essence the romans killed an empty zombie-like body.

    I reckon you can look at this in two ways, either YHWH is like you say only one of many spiritual beings who exist, some of which contact humanity, others who don't - which would explain why elohim is plural.
    Or, the Jews originally recognised YHWH as only one among all the Gods of their neighbours - Baal etc, YHWH is after all the God of the Jews specifically, and so in their writings the other Gods are mentioned as Gods and not lesser beings.
     
  3. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Isaiah 43:10
     
  4. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Mister Emu, isn't just possible that that "God" just didn't want any other gods recognized? Perhaps it is a god that thinks themselves greater than the other gods and wants no other recognized but themselves? The Greeks and the Romans and others with pantheons of deities have always had stories of gods bickering amongst each other and one always thinking they are greater than another...what if that were true? What if it is a rogue god? He does seem very demanding, more so than other gods religions have been based around.
     
  5. Voxton

    Voxton ·

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    While the Isaiah quote clearly states that there are no other gods but God, the bible equally clearly makes many references to there being other gods. It's just an example of one of a multitude of self-contradictions the book contains.

    "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." -- Exodus 20:3 (KJV)

    "Thou shalt have none other gods before me." -- Deuteronomy 5:7 (KJV)

    This is the very first of the 10 commandments. It clearly indicates that the author believes there to be other gods than God -- you could even read the passage to support the stance that it is acceptable to worship other gods, as long as you regard them as lesser gods.
     
  6. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Draka,

    If God is one of many, than He is a liar, and you should not follow Him, because who knows how much He lied about.

    Voxton,

    The Bible also makes note of the fact that the "gods" are not gods at all but the invention of man.
    I will find verses in a bit.
     
  7. Voxton

    Voxton ·

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    Even though I've found many disagreable passages in the bible, I've always found some that I agreed on. If there are biblical passages that says all gods are the invention of man, I've discovered another one. Bring the quotes on!
     
  8. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    Technically speaking, yes,God is one of many. But this is only because of man's limited abililty to label something that is beyond our comprehension.

    The Bible says that even we are 'as God's'. We are made in God's image. The Greeks worshipped many God's, but there was one at the top. I see the Christian God, and heirarchy of Angels as a mirror to what the Greeks believed. It's all just words trying to describe something that is beyond the material world as we know it.

    There is only one source. Christians don't use a name for it, just a label "God" unless you count the fact that many Christians have named the source "Jesus". Tao is a name used to label the source, as is Allah, and many others. But we have to stop getting wrapped up in these language barriers.

    It does not matter what man made label you use to commune with the source. The only thing you must know and believe with all of your heart is this:
    God (the source) is love.
    Everything else stems from this one simple truth.
     
  9. Finnyhaha

    Finnyhaha Member

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    Your conclusions would only be obvious to someone who believes that the Bible is the dictation of God. To those of us who do not believe that God "wrote" the Bible, or that it is inerrant, then what the Bible says about God, or says that God says, is largely irrelevant. No disrespect intended, only pointing out that your logic would only appear true to certain people.

    I'm pulling this next bit from a variety of things that I've read over the years, so forgive me for not stating sources, but I've come to the tentative conclusion that the ancient Israelites did in fact acknowledge the existance of other gods along with their god. They practiced monolatry (belief in more than one divinity, but worship of only one). This would be the reason that the early books of the Bible make reference to "the god of my forefathers" or "the god of the Israelites" or say things such as "the Lord YOUR god" (emphasis mine) rather than simply "the god".

    The numerous references in the early books of the Bible to the destruction of symbols and places sacred to their neighbors (Ashteroth (?), Baal, etc), would make sense if seen in the above context. They would have destroyed things sacred to their neighbors to reduce the power of their neighbor's gods.

    However, sometime in the later period of the composition of the Bible, the Israelites most likely developed a strict monotheism, and stopped acknowledging the existance of the other gods. From what I've read of the Bible and other sources this probably occured during the time of Jeremiah or one of the other later prophets. (Late as compared to Moses for example.)

    Ok, I'm going to stop rambling now. Just my thoughts mostly.
     
  10. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Yay! I'm not crazy! :woohoo:

    I have often said that Christian mythology is much like other ones...with a main deity at the top of the pyramid and a variety of those below...with Christianity it would be looked upon as angels. I was just thinking why is it not possible that the "god" is not just part of the pyramid as well...just perhaps a bit lower than believed. That perhaps there is a Divine above and encompassing that it is just a part of as well.
     
  11. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Well, if the Bible is 100% fact, then yes, I would hold God as a liar.
     
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Personally, I believe that Jesus is both the Son of God and the Lord himself. I just don't believe He is His own Father. I see the Father and the Son as sharing the name/title of "God." Consequently, when I speak of "God," I can be speaking of either one of them individually or of both of them simultaneously. I don't believe that Joseph was Jesus' father, though. I believe that His Father was the person He referred to on many occasions as "our Father in Heaven."

    I also believe in the existence of "other gods." It is for this reason that I am frequently accused of being polytheistic. Mormons believe, as did Paul, that while there were other beings, both in heaven and on earth, that were called gods, "to us there is but one God." If we are polytheistic, so was Paul. We also believe that there is a spark of divinity in each of us (and that doesn't just mean in Mormons). We don't see the human and the divine as being mutually exclusive, but believe that man is essentially the same "species" as God. The Bible says we are "his offspring," which, to me, means that we are related to Him in a way all of His other creations are not. Since all forms of life mature to resemble their parents, why not us? Kittens grow up to be cats; puppies grow up to be dogs. We believe that men and women have the potential (whether or not they choose to reach it) of "growing up" to be "gods." This doesn't mean that we believe we believe that we will ever be equal to "God," because we definitely don't. He will always be our God and we will always be subject to Him. Nor does it mean that we believe that godhood is something we can attain on our own. No one could ever achieve this state without God making it so.

    (Talk about setting people off... I'm sure I've done it now! ;) )

    Kathryn
     
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  13. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    I don't know if you set anyone off with that response..certainly not me, but I think it is a quite enlightened point of view actually. We Wiccans believe much the same thing...we are all a part of the Divine and will eventually return to it. The Divine runs through all of us and therefore we are all connected.
     
  14. Finnyhaha

    Finnyhaha Member

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    Certainly not. I've never had an interest in the LDS before, but your post just sparked one. :) Frubals to you!
     
  15. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    yes, and that is a common thread that flows through all religions. Christians have called it God, Lord, Almighty Father, some call it Tao, there is Allah, there is Abba, there are many names, but only one divine source. And very few truly understand the fact that "God" is way too big for any one religion. He manifests in whatever way necessary to communicate with those who are conciously connected to him/her/it.
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    I know a few christians that interpret those two verses as meaning thier are other gods, but you can only worship Jehova to be christian. The commandment does go on to say "for I am a jealous god." This can mean the Jehova gets jealous when you worships another god. I don't see why God would get jealous if someone worships a statue. Its pointless to get jealous over a statue made of wood or stone that has no emotion. That would make God immature if he did get jealous over a material thing getting more attention.
     
  17. SarahBeara

    SarahBeara Member

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    I think that you have very valid points, and I agree with some of them.

    This is simply a question of how literal and reliable the bible is. This would not be a valid explanation for someone who views the bible literally, but I agree with your point. I don't know if Jesus was the biological son of Joseph or not, but in my oppinion, that is not an important detail. All that matters is who Jesus was; not who his biological parent(s) was/were.

    Good point, although I see it another way. Other Gods were eluded to in the bible because of the culture and religion of the time. The way I see it is that the Gods and Goddesses in other religions are the same God as the Christian God. I believe they're all the same God simply percieved in a different way.

    Thanks for sharing your point of view :).
     
  18. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Why thank you, Finny! :) By the way, what's Mu'?
     
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