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Christian - Christ is the only way to salvation

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Aqualung, Aug 20, 2005.

  1. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    I am just curious are you saying Jesus's(pbuh) message was for everyone and that Christ is the only key to salvation. Salvation is found in noone else but him
     
  2. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    It means, in my view, that I can't save myself, and that nobody else can save me. I will never be able, through my own efforts, save myself
     
  3. oneWord

    oneWord New Member

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    Have you ever read the Words of Jesus Himself? Read! He talks the most about Hell in the BIble. (I mean 'woe') Why don't you replenish this particulr forum by reading His words on HELL/Salvation?! (we all are constantly confused) We HEAR His voice, and FOLLOW Him. (period) The Holy Spirit convicts us to do it-we can't 'choose' and we can't 'hide'. We are made 'new'. The Word cuts, divides, feeds, levins. We have no choice, either we deny Him (pretend) or we are slaves of/to Christ....it's a wild journey either way! I pray God does so tonight for all!
     
  4. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Here's another great quote from Katzpur.
     
  5. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe in the day of Judgement? Are not people accountable for their own actions as it says in the book of Ezichiel The father shall not bear the inequity of the son and the son shall not bear the inequity of the father. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Does this not mean that every person is accountable for his and her own action. And if there is no Day of Judgement what is the purpose of our creation. And if Jesus is the path of salvation what is the point shouldn't I according to certain Christian dogma go to heaven regardless of my conduct. Could I be a murderer, pedophile, rapist, and any other type sinner. Jesus (pbuh) has already taken all of everyone sins this is something that has always been confusing can you please clarify for me.
     
  6. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Yes
    Of course they are. But if Jesus hadn't sacrificed himslef for me, I would be a goner. I'm not good enough, nor is anybody, to get into God's presence. But I'm definiltey accountalbe for whe I did.
    No. He has not already done that. The only thing that Jesus has extended to everybody is resurection from the dead. But in order to inherit a high place in heaven, you not only have to beleive in Jesus, but you have to strive to follow his commandments.
     
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  7. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    So after we die if we do not accept the sacrifice of Jesus what happens to everyone else do they just stay in the grave are not all people to be resurrected on the Day of Judgement and be judged before God. Another question where in the scripture does Jesus say all of these things. that he was going to die for the worlds sin be resurrected and this is the plan of the father. Is there a place in the scripture where Jesus says in his own words that all of these events will take place. And if Jesus did not sacrifice hiself how would you be a goner do you mean you would just die or you would never had existed. And who decided all of this God or Jesus.
     
  8. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    No. after we die we go either to spirit prison or to paradise. This is a holding area before we get judged. Then Jesus comes for his mellenial reign. This is where the judgement takes place. The people who have chosen to accept Jesus get to live on earth for his millenial reign, while the others get put into a place of torment (hell) for the 1000 years. After that, the one's who had accepted Jesusgo to one of the two highest degrees of glory, where they either recieve of the fullness of the Father or of the fullness of the Son. THe ones who didn't accept Jesus get resurected inot the lowest degree of heaven. They only recieve of the fullness of the holy ghost. The ones who rejected God (which is different than just accepting him) die a second, spiritual death, because they are eternally cut off from the presence of andy part of the Godhead
     
  9. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hi, Mujahid. I believe you may have misunderstood. Yes, we are definitely to be held accountable for our own actions. But we believe that no unclean thing can enter God's presence. When we enter into a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ, whom we believe to be God's only begotten Son, he assumes our guilt for us. But in turn, we promise to continue to try our best to obey Gods' commandments, and to repent when we fall short. It is impossible to be a true Christian by simply offering lip-service to our Savior. We are under a solemn promise to do our part, too. Jesus is the "author of salvation unto all them that obey him," not unto the individual who willfully disregards His commandments and never makes an effort to repent of his sins. I hope this clarifies this belief to some extent.
     
  10. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    Again I must ask where does Jesus say these things in the scriptures. And is Jesus God or son of God or Trinity because there are many Christian groups saying different things in terms of what happens in the afterlife who is correct and how do you know since all claim to have the word of God. Who is lying and who is telling the truth. Give the criterion for who has the correct knowledge lay it out for me brother please because I am interested in trying to find reason in the Christian Conundrum.
     
  11. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    so you want an overview of my beleifs and why I beleive them?
     
  12. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    Not really an overview just scriptural references I can verify from and to explain when you said accept God do you mean Jesus.
     
  13. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Okay. So what do you want scripture references for? do you want me to stay in the bible, or use the book of mormon et al.? when i say accept god, i do mean jesus, but jesus is doing god's will, so yuo might as well say god
     
  14. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    I just like to have references so I can check my bibles and see if these dogmas are present. And how can God be the same as Jesus. Is not God, God and Jesus, Jesus two completely seperate individual because one is dependant on the other. Is is not true the Creator can not be the created. And if Jesus is doing God's will then Jesus is the servant and is the servant ever the same as the master. And you can use them both if you like because if there from the same God should they not have the same ideas interms of the hereafter.
     
  15. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    yes but which dogmas specifically?

    they are. I never said they were the one and the same
     
  16. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    The dogmas I am referring to are when you were explaining the things to come I believe some Protestants call it the rapture I am not saying you adhere to this dogma. It was the ones you stated in the earlier posts I believe it was two or three before you stated about a 1000 years, Jesus coming etc. and you said in response to my question that they are I believe you mean the same but you never said they were one and the same but you said in the earlier post they might as well be because he is doings God's will. So they might as well be. Does this not mean that they are the same I am a little confused in your answer. You said "they are" but then you said " I never said they were the one and the same". Please forgive me for my ignorance but explain what you mean and if I knew how to post quotes from different post it would possibly become a little more clear
     
  17. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    okay. I'll do that for you. to post quotes from different posts, you write <quote=Aqualung> except in place of < and > you put [ and ]. then to end the quote you write [/quote]. so I'll try to clearify the dogmas in a little while. Possibly not till tomorrow.
     
  18. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    The things about the spirit prison and what not? Okay, here goes that explanation. When you die, you don't go right up to heaven to see Jesus, or right to hell to suffer for all of eternity. You either go to paradise, if you were good, or to the spirit prison, if you were bad. A good way to show that you don't go right to "heaven" is to show what Jesus said when he was on the cross. Luke 23:39-43 states "And one of te malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou are in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

    Okay, so a lot of people thinks that this means that right when you die you will go to "heaven." This isn't true, because you have to look at where Jesus was on that day, and therefore where the guy was going, too. 1 Peter 3:18-19 say "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison." So Jesus went to the spirit prison. There's the short version. :D
     
  19. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    I don't beleive that Jesus and God are the same. But they are perfectly united in purpose. That means that if Jesus does something, it is the will of the Father that he do it, and if Jesus doesn't do something, it's because the Father doesn't want him to do it. They are different people, but they are never at odds with each other.
     
  20. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    I am curious when you say begotten do you mean as in sire. Because that is what the dictionary depending on what year they change continuously says is what begotten means. It is a word to describe the lower animal functions of sex and no Christian or Muslim would say this about the Creator. I have children and they are my begotten children and I do not want to say because it is inappropriate what is done to be begotten and Jesus according to the bible is not the only begotten son of God. And newer versions of the bible have actually changed the word begotten to unique or only. And if he is God's son and why in the two listing of the geneology of Jesus is God's name not mentioned did God forget to inspire the writer to include his name. Does God forget?

    And when does Jesus say he will assume the guilt for us? or for anyone?

    God says in the bible in Isaiah 43:10 that he is the only saviour so how can Jesus be a saviour as well

    How can he be the author of salvation when Jesus says he has no power except from who has sent him. And if he is speaking God's words how does and when does Jesus claim authorship. Forgive my ignorance but isn't that a type of plagurism

    I have many other questions about the scriptures that I have never had answered if you have time or are intereested I would love to share them with you so that maybe I could get clarification on things concerning the scriptures which have never been clarified.
     
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