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Christian Bible context only: God’s laws for sex and marriage

Jim

Nets of Wonder
NOTE: This is for anyone, Christian or not, who agrees to argue only from Christian Bibles. Interpretations, and literal or figurative can be argued, but no debates about historicity or authorship.

This is my understanding of God’s laws for marriage and sex, according to His prophets in Christian Bible stories.

According to what God’s prophets say in Christian Bibles, I see Him encouraging people to reproduce, and at the same time assigning lifelong responsibilities to any man and woman, the first time that they join physically in the way that sometimes produces children. Those responsibilities include provisions that leave no doubt about who is the biological father of any child. I also see God prohibiting the practice of substituting men or animals in the place of women, for that kind of joining with a man, and the practice of substituting animals in the place of men, for that kind of joining with a woman.

NOTE: The following has been edited. The original text is below.

That’s all. Apart from those, I don’t see any laws related to sexual stimulation.

I don’t see any prohibition against two men or two women calling their relationship “marriage,” but I don’t see God assigning the same responsibilities to them that he does to a man and woman when they join physically in the way that sometimes produces children.

I would like to know if anyone sees any Old Testament prophets disagreeing with what I’m saying.

——

Original text:

That’s all. Apart from those, I don’t see any laws related to sexual stimulation, or to any kind of relationship between two men or two women, or against calling that “marriage.” It just isn’t the kind of marriage that God is encouraging when He says “Be fruitful and multiply,” and He doesn’t assign the same responsibilities to those couples that he assigns to a man and woman the first time that they join physically in the way that sometimes produces children.
 
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Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
Computer modelling is showing the move to monogamy was because of the impact of STD's. The biblical laws exist for exactly the same reason. Only in the modern age has sex become safer, but not entirely risk free. Before this STD's were some of the biggest killers
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I see Him encouraging people to reproduce
Actually, no. In the New Testament, followers of Jesus are encouraged not to marry or reproduce but if they choose to do so they have to do so in a very responsible manner.


8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
Matthew 19:8-11


1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

17 Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. 20 Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.
21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22 For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings. 24 Brothers and sisters, each person, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.
Concerning the Unmarried
25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.
32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
36 If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.
39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. 40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.
1 Corinthians 7

 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Computer modelling is showing the move to monogamy was because of the impact of STD's. The biblical laws exist for exactly the same reason. Only in the modern age has sex become safer, but not entirely risk free. Before this STD's were some of the biggest killers
Thank you.

I was describing what I see the prophets in the Christian Bible saying that God’s laws are for marriage and sex. Do you see them saying anything different from what I’m saying?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Actually, no. In the New Testament, followers of Jesus are encouraged not to marry or reproduce but if they choose to do so they have to do so in a very responsible manner.
Thank you.

I was describing what I see the prophets saying that God’s laws are for marriage and sex. I’ll read what Jesus said in its context, and see what I think. Apart from Him, do you see any other prophets saying anything different from what I’m saying? The Apostles were not prophets. I’m not arguing that Paul was wrong, and we can discuss that if you’d like to, but first if it’s okay with you, I’d like to know if you see any other prophets besides Jesus saying anything different from what I’m saying.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Okay. :) Do you see any Old Testament prophets disagreeing with what I’m saying?
The Prophets are kind of silent on the issue of marriage, they really don't say much at all except when it comes to marrying those who worship idols.
 
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whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
This is for anyone, Christian or not, who agrees to argue only from Christian Bibles. Interpretations, and literal or figurative can be argued, but no debates about historicity or authorship.

This is my understanding of God’s laws for marriage and sex, according to His prophets in Christian Bible stories.

According to what God’s prophets say in Christian Bibles, I see Him encouraging people to reproduce, and at the same time assigning lifelong responsibilities to any man and woman, the first time that they join physically in the way that sometimes produces children. Those responsibilities include provisions that leave no doubt about who is the biological father of any child. I also see God prohibiting the practice of substituting men or animals in the place of women, for that kind of joining with a man, and the practice of substituting animals in the place of men, for that kind of joining with a woman.

That’s all. Apart from those, I don’t see any laws related to sexual stimulation, or to any kind of relationship between two men or two women, or against calling that “marriage.” It just isn’t the kind of marriage that God is encouraging when He says “Be fruitful and multiply,” and He doesn’t assign the same responsibilities to those couples that he assigns to a man and woman the first time that they join physically in the way that sometimes produces children.


Of course in the book of Hebrews it does say 'fornicators God will judge"

In general I think looking at things big picture is a good idea and not just proof texting with verses here and there.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Of course in the book of Hebrews it does say 'fornicators God will judge"
What do you think Paul means by “fornicators” in that context, and what are your reasons for thinking that’s what he means? I think it might mean people who practice sexual behavior that has been prohibited by God.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
The Prophets are kind of silent on the issue of marriage, they really don't say much at all except when it comes to marrying those who worship idols.
I did a little searching and I didn’t find any reason to think that Jesus or any of the Apostles encourage people to reproduce. From the passages you cited, it does look to me like they discourage it.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I did a little searching and I didn’t find any reason to think that Jesus or any of the Apostles encourage people to reproduce. From the passages you cited, it does look to me like they discourage it.
They believed that it could be a distraction that immerses people into worldly affairs
 

sugnim

Member
I've never thought "be fruitful and multiply" had anything to do with marriage. I always thought it was more of a way of granting what was once only God's creative power to other life forms. Before, only God created life. After, life was empowered to create life through a gift from God.
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
I've never thought "be fruitful and multiply" had anything to do with marriage. I always thought it was more of a way of granting what was once only God's creative power to other life forms. Before, only God created life. After, life was empowered to create life through a gift from God.

But that would be claiming God made plants and animals sterile
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I think now that all I’m looking for is any examples anyone can find of Old Testament prophets, including Moses, disagreeing with what I said in the OP, about the laws of God for marriage and sex. Not that I won’t discuss anything else if anyone wants to.
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
I think now that all I’m looking for is any examples anyone can find of Old Testament prophets, including Moses, disagreeing with what I said in the OP, about the laws of God for marriage and sex. Not that I won’t discuss anything else if anyone wants to.

Basically introducing modern thinking to ancient text,.. Is pointless
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Basically introducing modern thinking to ancient text,.. Is pointless
What did I say in the OP, that you’re calling “modern thinking”? Or do you mean that there’s no reason for anyone today to have any interest in what the Old Testament says about anything?
 

sugnim

Member
But that would be claiming God made plants and animals sterile
A literal interpretation might lead you to this. I read the Genesis story as a beautiful, ancient myth incorporating an understanding of life and spirituality. In this light, God created life, and passed along the gift of creation to the very life he created.
 

sugnim

Member
I think now that all I’m looking for is any examples anyone can find of Old Testament prophets, including Moses, disagreeing with what I said in the OP, about the laws of God for marriage and sex. Not that I won’t discuss anything else if anyone wants to.


How about the juxtaposition of these two:

Genesis 2:24
A man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

1 Samuel 18:1-4
After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home to his family. And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.
 
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