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Christian Autolatry, Poll Question #1

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Sleeppy, Jan 23, 2017.

?
  1. Possible; Only after denouncing materialism, in favor of socialism.

  2. Impossible; A camel cannot pass through the eye of a needle.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Like 18:18-27

    And a certain ruler questioned him, saying, `Good teacher, what having done -- shall I inherit life age-during?' And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good, except One -- God; the commands thou hast known: Thou mayest not commit adultery, Thou mayest do no murder, Thou mayest not steal, Thou mayest not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.' And he said, `All these I did keep from my youth;' and having heard these things, Jesus said to him, `Yet one thing to thee is lacking; all things -- as many as thou hast -- sell, and distribute to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, be following me;' and he, having heard these things, became very sorrowful, for he was exceeding rich. And Jesus having seen him become very sorrowful, said, `How hardly shall those having riches enter into the reign of God! For it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to enter, than for a rich man into the reign of God to enter.' And those who heard, said, `And who is able to be saved?' And he said, `The things impossible with men are possible with God.'



    What does Jesus say is an impossibility?
     
    #1 Sleeppy, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  2. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Open to all.
     
  3. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    He doesn't rule out the possibility but seems to be saying it will be easier and with greater reward to give away excessive wealth to the poor.
     
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  4. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    So his reference to an 'impossibility' has nothing to do with the aforementioned, highlighted in teal, or even the first bolded statement?
     
  5. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    The reaction of the Apostles puts it in context. The Apostles after hearing the saying left all their stuff to follow God. So...The question was "who then can be saved"? And his answer seems to be, If you follow man this is impossible, but if you follow God it is possible.
     
  6. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Exactly.

    It is impossible for a rich man/woman to enter into the reign of God, because he would first need to give all ownership to God.

    And God demands that the poor be filled.
     
  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God" seems to me to be ruling out the possibility.

    Also, if someone has saved up lots of money, what are they saving it for? In the Gospels, Jesus describes people who worry about their material needs or the future as "you of little faith."
     
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  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    ... though while also not feeding the poor in place, and while giving authority to leaders who cause more people to be poor and unfed.

    The Bible has a mixed message on this issue.
     
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  9. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    It depends on the size of the needle. And being saved from hell is not the only part of the equation, there is also the matter of your reward in heaven. Giving away you earthly wealth to the poor lays up treasure in heaven for you. And of course if someone had a lot of faith, and was sure that was true, they would be giving their money to the poor.
     
  10. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    It's been a mixed issue. Empathy is an evolutionary gift, for the Son of Man/mankind's further advancement. But, it hasn't been more valuable to other species, being that our reach can extend. We took ourselves to the moon, in an effort to discover and validate our own inverted imaginings.

    We can control the environments and structure of an entire planet.. If.
     
  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I do not believe it is impossible for a rich man/woman to give all ownership to God.

    I believe I have never seen a statement to that extent.
     
  12. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    It is impossible for a camel to go through a needle's eye. I think Jesus was teaching how difficult it would be for a rich person to give up their riches, if need be, for the sake of true worship. That being said, while most of the early Christians were not rich, there were some who were. (1 Timothy 6:17-19)
     
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  13. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    A man/woman who acknowledges God's reign, does not store up material riches for himself/herself where the poor exist.

    You aren't able to give anything to God, who created all things, of and for Himself.

    But, if it were possible for the rich to acknowledge the reign of God, they would repent, and justify themselves with the poor.

    James 1:9-12
    And let the brother who is low rejoice in his exaltation, and the rich in his becoming low, because as a flower of grass he shall pass away; for the sun did rise with the burning heat, and did wither the grass, and the flower of it fell, and the grace of its appearance did perish, so also the rich in his way shall fade away! Happy the man who does endure temptation, because, becoming approved, he shall receive the crown of the life, which the Lord did promise to those loving Him.

    Also, Deuteronomy 15:4
    Howbeit there shall be no needy among you-- for YHVH will surely bless you in the land which YHVH your God gives you for an inheritance to possess it-- if only you diligently hearken unto the voice of YHVH your God, to observe to do all this commandment which I command you this day.
     
  14. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Didn't say it was impossible, only that shoving a camel through a needle's eye is easier. :)

    Yes, I've also heard the possibility it's a slang term for a small city gate or something.

    But only if you do it in secret. If you blab about it, per Jesus, God considers the issue dealt with so you get nothing.

    And it's impossible for a man to be made out of dirt, or a woman grown from a man's rib, or a snake to talk in a human language (verbal, anyway), or a donkey to do the same, or ... or ...
     
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  15. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    he didn't say anything was impossible. he said it was harder to get into heaven based on materialistic attachments.


    the love of oneself and other as self.

    narcissism is allowed; so long as it doesn't exclude other as self.


    oneness is the love all as ONE
     
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